Assault and Battery. What gives?

[Tom V]

Something is going on here that I don't understand. Suddenly, last Thursday, my camera started sucking down batteries like crazy. On a location shoot, batteries would only last a few minutes. I quickly went through several sets of rechargables, and even had to pirate some out of a Speedlight to get through the 4 hour, 80 exposure shoot. I attributed it to slack recharging / set rotation. I had two strange exposures with a seemingly slow shutter or something.

And the CR123A battery hatch latch is jammed. I don't want to stick batteries in there, since getting the thing open requires a screwdriver and force.

Okay. I wemt home and recharged every battery I have (28 of them) in my Sunpack 4-batt quick charger. It takes between 2 and 4 hours per set. I figure they are all charged, perhaps with some memory goofiness, but charged.

Tuesday morning I did a little studio shot of a torch and flame-proof blanket. 8 shots, some time exposures up to 4 seconds. I had to change the batteries during the shoot.

Tuesday evening I had a location shoot. Take a picture of a house at sundown (rainy weather, of course!). Simple, right? Camera on tripod, 24 exposures over 20 minutes, most between 2 and 6 seconds each. I went through 4 sets of freshly charged batteries. I would literally put a set in, take two exposures, and the S2 starts beeping. The image got recorded each time, and I noted no strange exposures.

Is it my camera? I've noticed no smoke, the batteries aren't particulary warm (from quick discharge), - or is it the batteries? Have all my batteries gone kaput all at once? Maybe my charger isn't charging completely.

?????

I suppose I should buy a decent battery tester, a set of new batteries, or a different charger, before I send the camera in. :(

[Melody]

I've got no clue Tom, I have about 8 sets of the rechargeables which weren't lasting anytime at all I figured I got some of the new sets mixed up with the older ones, it was very frustrating, although nothing quite as bad as your describing. I gave up and quit using rechargeables I just order about 200 AA's at a time from botach and have been a happy camper!

Melody

[sandman]

Thats the way i'd go as well Tom , elimenate the S2 first , buy a set of ordinary AA 's and try them , that will give you a starting point . if it is the S2 it's gotta be a power issue .
If they last OK , it's gotta be the rechargables or charger , just buy a new set of rechargables and try them , that will tell you which .
I'd guess this is a charger issue .

Brian

[Tom Nolle]

I had that happen to me when my batteries went. What threw me off, and still does, is that THREE sets of rechargeables all went at once! My assumption is that something happened to nuke them (in my case, they might have frozen). I got new AAs and never had another problem.

Tom

[Serge]

I had noticed that my high amperage (2100) Nhi sets were not giving me the same number of recharge cycles before they would satrt losing power quickly, compared to what I used to get from the old Nicads. I queried this with one of our tech guys at work, and he confirmed that the Nicads gave longer shelf life than the newer Nhi variety. Bummer.

[Sleeping Bear]

Head to Sam's Club or Wal Mart and pickup a new charger that comes with 4-12 new Rechargables. Charge up a set and pop them in the camera. This will let you know within minutes what is happening. Then you can charge your old batteries and test them out. I would test with the new batteries and charger first though. I had sort of the same thing happen, but not on this level, and it proved to be a charger that had gone bad. I didn't catch the problem until it had fried a few batteries. Good luck, Tom.

[lightwrangler]

I suspect that it may be the charger. Either it doesn't full charge anymore or through some malfunction, it has fried your batteries. I have the Sunpak charger as well and while I haven't had the same problems as you, I find that the Maha charger that I also use charges batteries more fully. (If that makes sense?) The PowerEx batteries supplied by Maha also seem to be much better performers than the Sunpak or Annsmann varieties that I have. I'm getting around 120 - 180 shots out of the PowerEx batteries, verses 60 - 100 out of the Annsmann. I don't use CR123s (stupid batteries imho). Getting long life out of AAs with the S2 seems almost impossible and an accessory pack seems like the best idea. Although I have been looking at a Quantum battery pack, I've put that off since I will most likely get another camera and I want to see if they are cross compatible.

[pauly99]

Tom, can you put in a fresh set of non-rechargable batteries and give that a try without the CR123's??? I made the mistake of buying some cheapy cheapy Walmart brand batteries at one point and I put them in my S2 while at Yosemite. A wolf ran across my path and I clicked the shutter and nothing. Put in a new set a couple minutes later (I must have picked up 12 of these batteries for $2) and the second set wouldn't trip the shutter either. Put in the rechargeables and lo and behold they worked like a charm. Maybe your rechargables have had one too many charges or maybe it is the charger itself. I'd put in a fresh set of non-rechargable's... either Duracell or Energizer.

[shlomo]

I suspect that it may be the charger. Either it doesn't full charge anymore or through some malfunction, it has fried your batteries. I have the Sunpak charger as well and while I haven't had the same problems as you, I find that the Maha charger that I also use charges batteries more fully. (If that makes sense?) The PowerEx batteries supplied by Maha also seem to be much better performers than the Sunpak or Annsmann varieties that I have. I'm getting around 120 - 180 shots out of the PowerEx batteries, verses 60 - 100 out of the Annsmann. I don't use CR123s (stupid batteries imho). Getting long life out of AAs with the S2 seems almost impossible and an accessory pack seems like the best idea. Although I have been looking at a Quantum battery pack, I've put that off since I will most likely get another camera and I want to see if they are cross compatible.
Where you are buying Maha batteries in Toronto?
I have same problem: 2300 Optex batteries will work for 5 min, but Panasonic 2100 are fine

[lightwrangler]

I get Maha (PowerEx) online at www.paulsfinest.com

Tell him Adrian sent ya!

[shlomo]

thank you very much

[Tom V]

I got some regular Alkaline AAs and put them in. The camera works fine. I shot 80 frames and everything seems normal. :cheers:

I used my old Radio Shack (US chain of electronics stores) brand charger, instead of my Sunpak charger. I put in some of my oldest Ni-MH and discharged and charged them overnight. They work! The camera works!

The cause of the problem must be my Sunpak charger. I have owned it about 1.5 years. It is the Sunpak PicturePlus™, Microprocessor controlled Ultra-fast Ni-MH/Ni-Cd Charger. Product no. ACC-M1043-00. It's small, and quickly doesn't charge a set of batteries. If anyone wants it, they can find it in my trash can.

The "good" charger, is the Radio Shack Ni-Cd / Ni-MH charger. It takes up to a few hours to discharge a set of batteries, and 8+ hours to charge them back up. It has a setting for discharging the batts, switches for Ni-Cd or Ni-MH, and for Low or High Capacity. According to the chart on it, the "High-Capacity" setting is for AA Ni-MH batts in the range of 1301-1500mAH (shows you how old this is).

I am not sure if it's able to fully charge my current 2100mAH batts. I don't know if charging higher capacity batteries works in a charger that "thinks" 1500mAH is high capacity. Whichever, it beats the alternative, now residing in the trash can.

[lightwrangler]

The cause of the problem must be my Sunpak charger. I have owned it about 1.5 years. It is the Sunpak PicturePlus™, Microprocessor controlled Ultra-fast Ni-MH/Ni-Cd Charger. Product no. ACC-M1043-00. It's small, and quickly doesn't charge a set of batteries. If anyone wants it, they can find it in my trash can.

The "good" charger, is the Radio Shack Ni-Cd / Ni-MH charger. It takes up to a few hours to discharge a set of batteries, and 8+ hours to charge them back up. It has a setting for discharging the batts, switches for Ni-Cd or Ni-MH, and for Low or High Capacity. According to the chart on it, the "High-Capacity" setting is for AA Ni-MH batts in the range of 1301-1500mAH (shows you how old this is).

Tom,

My Sunpak is model PicturePlus ACC-M1051-00, and as I said before does a fairly good job. Must be a newer model, although I have had it for a couple of years. My Radio Shack Ni-Cd / Ni-MH charger is catalog #23-405 and is a battery burner. They come out of that red hot, too hot to handle. I stopped using it for my camera batteries last year as I suspect that it was responsible for frying my 1800ma Ansmann batteries. Strangely the Radio Shack Ni-MHs I use in my SB26 and 285 flashes charge well in the Radio Shack charger, still red hot but seem none the worse for the ordeal. I am none the less suspicious of it.

I also have an Ansmann PowerLine4 charger that works well with Ansmann batteries but doesn't seem to recognize any others. It's a smart charger and will do a full discharge if you ask it to, but it does take 8 hours to do that plus a recharge. Still it doesn't come close to the Maha charger, model MH-C401FS. At first I doubted that the little light plastic charger would be any good, but it has proven to be the best of the bunch. Even the Ansmanns charged in their own charger aren't as good as when they come out of the Maha. I am considering another Maha and semi retiring (to my son and wife) the RS and Sunpak models for use with walkmans and toys.

I am anxious to see what kind of life span the PowerEx (Maha) batteries will have with an S3.

[Tom V]

Thanks for all the comments, suggestions and help.

Adrian, thanks for the link and specifics about your chargers. I just ordered a PowerEx MH-C401FS charger, some batts, and some battery cases.

I expect that the new charger will make my existing pile of batteries better performing.

:beerchug:

[lightwrangler]

Adrian, thanks for the link and specifics about your chargers. I just ordered a PowerEx MH-C401FS charger, some batts, and some battery cases.

:beerchug:

I'll pass the tip of the hat to Ballroom Boy, who put me on to Paul's finest in the first place. Before that we canucks had to go to Thomas' distributing in the good 'ole USA to shop. Paul's seems to have a bit better pricing too. And besides where else can you buy chocolate and batteries on the same site? :lol:

Cheers back at ya!

[S_Leeper]

...And the CR123A battery hatch latch is jammed. I don't want to stick batteries in there, since getting the thing open requires a screwdriver and force... :(

Mine is very tight too. However, I found that often when running without CR123's I get low power warnings during the write cycle & then shortly there after ok...

I know that I will eventually break it, but until then I find that if "jiggle" it just right by pushing in only part way then it comes right open... that being said there have been times where it takes 5 minutes to change them.

[Wilm]

@all,

I have rasp it a little. Opening and closing is without a problem. When I receive an unknown ERR-message, removing is as simple as possible. Open it and they fall down.

It's 10.30pm here, I'll be with my customers tomorrow. I'll shoot some details with my wife's cam tomorrow.


:cheers:
Wilm


BTW: I have bought 20 CR123's for less than 12 EUR = 15 USD. A set last's at least 1.000 shots and keep the AA's for 300 shots. This investment is ok for me until somebody will start here with a new thread" S3-body in mint conditions" :lol:

[Tom V]

The latest,

The original website I ordered from was based in Canada, so they emailed me to tell me I would be happier with http://www.thomas-distributing.com/ , which looks much the same. I ended up ordering a different charger, but still got 2300 mAh batts, and a battery tester.

Geez! Even with the new batteries, my S2 seems to be acting strangely. Sometimes the camera starts beeping after just 2 shots. If I turn the camera off, wait a minute, I can take more shots. If I don't shoot rapid-fire, I can shoot for quite a while with the battery level icon(s) at 1-bar (showing almost empty). I have sat here at my desk, and shot 150 frames, and it keeps going and going. But it seems, when I have a real shot to do, the camera squawks. Sometimes the batteries seem to work fine, sometimes not.

I am starting to think that something is intermittently wrong with the camera.

I bought a battery tester. Phooey. Nearly every battery I've tested shows "GOOD". Even batteries that are too dead to run a flashlight show up as "GOOD". I did find some batteries in the bottom of a drawer that showed DEAD, so I suppose the battery tester works in some regard.

To open the CR123A battery door, I use my Swiss-Army knife file blade. To close it I need body-deforming force.

[Wilm]

Some basic hints on NiMh batteries:

1st: You never have to discharge them. It's the advantage of a NiMh versus a NiCd that they will have no memory-effect.

2nd: They discharge quite quickley. A NiMh is after 4 weeks almost empty.

3rd: Their cycles are less than the NiCd-ones. After a couple of hundred charges they can die, and in a set of four the chance is quite high

4th: What will happen when they die:

a: They might change their polarity. Use a simple 5$ voltage-meter. It will show less than the others or even -0.2 Volts.

b: A Cell is broken, the initial capacity is 100% but after some power used they will drop to 20%

How can I prevent that trouble in my camera ?

I don't have a clue yet !

But there are some hints as a technican I would like to provide you :

1st: Give every set of cells a unique number. Lets say, set one is #1
2nd: Write down in a little book how many recharges were done. If you see that brand A dies after 155 cycles, you cood expect the same issue with set #2 of brand A.

I am changing my sets every 6 month. My children are happy with these batteries at all, I am happy not to be forced to buy simple Alcaline-batteries for them.

Some hints might help - thought -

I have to add something:
NiMh don't like extreme temperatures !!! When you have them in a mine, their capacity drops to 70%. When you leave them in your car during summer, they might start a chemical process. NO, they don't explode, but they die in some minutes only.


:cheers:
Wilm


(Who loves his passion of beeing a photog, but who is in his usual live a technican, radio-amateur and a sales-guy )

[Tom V]

After all is said and done, with new batteries, etc., the camera still craps out after a few shots on battery power. I have resorted to shooting in-studio with the AC power block and cord. Outdoors, I bring lots of batteries. I will be sending the camera in for some sort of repair. I think I may buy a D70 as a spare, and use it while my S2 is gone.

[lightwrangler]

Sorry to hear that Tom. But yes it does seem as though the camera is at fault and not your batteries. I recently checked out a D70 to use for "grip n' grins" and I think that I will get one. They seem like a very decently priced camera although you must remember that the flash sync outlet (if you aren't already using Pocket Wizards), power adapter and remote release are all extras adding another $100 or more to the bottom line. Still it does shoot fast and for a lot of things the files are more than enough. Sadly the colour rendition isn't up to the Fuji, but as a PS wiz kid, you shouldn't have too much trouble coming up with a curve that will solve that.

Hope the S2 comes home "well".

[Tom V]

I can't believe that it took me so long to get the camera fixed. I didn't want to be without a camera, so I waited and waited for the S3 - THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE OUT LAST SUMMER - to use while the S2 was out of service. I survived by using the AC adapter, and nearly all my work was indoors. I bought a D70 and packed the S2 off for repair.

The diagnosis: "Impact Damage"

Somehow, I busted something inside and caused a intermittent bad circuit. If the camera was held wrong, it would get too little power, and the camera would crap out. If I held the camera just right, it worked fine. I never noticed, but after thinking about it for 10 seconds, the diagnosis fits. Whenever I had the camera on the tripod, I could only get a shot or two. Whenever I handheld the camera, it worked mostly fine (testing the AA alkalines was all hand-held). As I usually shoot in the studio on a tripod (under NiMH power), everytime I used it, it was presenting the bad circuit symptoms. The AC power circuit must not have been in the loop that was damaged.

The CR123A door was a huge clue, but instead of blaming "impact damage," I blamed the door, or door design, or plastic material.

I probably I banged the camera body way back in August without knowing it, cracked something, and started the whole ball of wax. Too bad I threw out my evidently blameless charger.

[AzRich]

... Too bad I threw out my evidently blameless charger.

D'oh! Luckily they aren't TOO expensive, and you get one free with an S3.

Finally get to use this one - :voegeli:

[pauly99]

Tom, fixed just in time to get snowed in. Hope that we see some pretty snow without the roof caving in.

[lightwrangler]

I can't believe that it took me so long to get the camera fixed. I didn't want to be without a camera, so I waited and waited for the S3 - THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE OUT LAST SUMMER - to use while the S2 was out of service. I survived by using the AC adapter, and nearly all my work was indoors. I bought a D70 and packed the S2 off for repair.

The diagnosis: "Impact Damage"

(SNIP)

I probably I banged the camera body way back in August without knowing it, cracked something, and started the whole ball of wax. Too bad I threw out my evidently blameless charger.

D'OH!!!
Glad to hear that your S2 is back in action. I agree with AZ, chargers are cheap, buy another MAHA and put it down to experience. I also bought a D70 for backup and by coincidence my S2 is soon to be off to the shop (wide angle auto-focus problems - nothing is in absolute focus). I do like the little and fast D70 but the S2 really does produce a higher quality image and until I am ready for a S3 or a D2X I want a working S2, warts and all. Remarkable how in this fast changing digital world you and I both hang on to what is "older" technology. Old, but still very useful and it does make a very good picture. I find that if I am doing work in a controlled environment like the studio, I choose the S2, but outside, on the run and especially in the cold, I am really starting to like the D70.

Cheers,
Adrian :rockon:

[Tom V]

So how long did my camera work correctly after I got it back?

Not very.

On the first day of use, it exhibited strange LCD panel flashes when the camera was off, and when set down or the lens was changed.

It seems as if only part of the problem has been fixed. I still get intermittent and increasingly frequent errors. I consider the camera unreliable in its present state, so it got moved to the back of the line, and I used my D70 instead.

Instead of the camera fouling up depending on how it was held, it messes up no matter how its held or mounted on the tripod. It only gives about 3-5 frames per battery set or on-off cycle.

I sent it back for re-repair and/or more repair.

[S_Leeper]

. . .To open the CR123A battery door, I use my Swiss-Army knife file blade. To close it I need body-deforming force.
Mine was that way too. I always dreaded having to change the cr123's because the little door was so difficult to open--often taking 10-15 minutes.

Well this last weekend did it for me. I was taking pictures at a cheerleading meet (my first time at one). And the girls from our school come out for a five minute routine, wait an hour then have their second five minute routine.

I replaced the cr123's just in time & got some shots. Then the replacements went low at the end of the first routine & I wasn't using flash... Took me better part of 15 minutes to pry the door open with a key & ran without for the second routine.

Got home & figured this was getting fixed. Before trimming the plastic, which on a prior camera lead to using tape to keep shut, I figured I would "lube" the little latch mechanism on the inside of the little door with some spray silicon (doesn't hurt electronic--usually). I was sucessful in not getting any all over the camera & the door now works very easily without popping open (at least not yet).

Being an ex hardware guy I should have known...

p.s. Good luck with your repair.

[Tom V]

The camera is back. The repairman found no problems, but blamed my batteries.

I think he's right.

I plopped a set of my batteries in the returned camera, and they died rather quickly (60 shots?). I discharged them and charg.... hey wait a minute! My charger holds 4 batteries, but it can charge 2 at a time, so it discharges or charges them in pairs. I noticed that both pairs don't take the same amount of time to discharge or charge. I think at least one battery in the set is bad, or the charger is goofed up and not charging one side (one pair) correctly.

I have a battery tester, and it says all the batteries are good.

[lightwrangler]

The camera is back. The repairman found no problems, but blamed my batteries. (SNIP) I have a battery tester, and it says all the batteries are good.

When in doubt ... throw them out! Well at least, be green and recycle them.
I have gone through a half dozen sets of batteries with the same problem. Despite the claim that NiMHs can be recharged up to 1,000 times, I have never gotten that kind of mileage.

[lightwrangler]

The most common cause of a battery dying on you is getting the poles reversed during decharging. Quite a few chargers decharge before charge. And quite a few do this two-by-two batteries.

I can assure you that hasn't been my problem. I don't recall even once doing this. However I am sure that some people do. In some cases with older batteries I feel it has been the charger. I had one that I felt overcharged, the batteries were too hot to handle coming out of that one. I know that they can be warm, but you could have cooked eggs on these. Even one cycle with this charger could have ruined the batteries. I haven't used that one for a long time. The PowerEx batteries I am currently (no pun intended) using along with the MAHA charger have been very good. Still in the end, I would have prefered that Fuji had gone to a battery pack like Nikon's D70. It's performance simply blows away the best results I have ever gotten from a set of NiMHs.