No power-up with lithium batteries inserted

[Ptwig]

Have owned an S2 Pro for two weeks .... until today was quite satisfied. However it failed to power up until I removed the lithium batteries. These batteries registered 2.48 vdc on a multimeter, when they should have been 3 vdc.

What would have drained them considering I've disabled the redeye light and have only used the built in flash twice? Has anyone else come across this problem, or do I have a faulty camera?

Would drained lithiums stop the camera powering up?

[Tom V]

Ptwig,

Yes, drained batteries will keep the S2 from functioning. Take the drained CR123As out, and the camera will switch itself to running on just the AAs (without the possibility of using the built-in flash). Running the camera on just AAs will naturally drain the AAs faster.

Your S2 is a hybrid camera. For the most part, it is a Nikon N80 front with a Fuji digital back. Normally, the CR123As are used to power the "Nikon" parts of the camera: the built-in flash, focusing, metering, top LCD, viewfinder info & grid lines, etc. The AAs power the "Fuji" parts such as the sensor, reading and writing to the memory card, image processing (sharpening, jpg compression, etc.), rear LCD panels, etc.

In order for the entire camera to work on with the AC Power Adapter, the internal circuits are somehow connected. This also allows the S2 to run on just AA power if the CR123As are removed. When the CR123As are in place, a sensor in the CR123A battery compartment lets the camera know batteries are in place (but not if they have a charge). While CR123A batteries are in place, the "Nikon" camera functions cannot be powered by the AAs. When you use the AC Power Adapter, the internal circuitry somehow discharges your CR123As, so remember to take them out.

I find that using my Nikkor 105mm Micro lens drains the CR123A batteries very fast. All that macro lens mechanism action sucks power. Obviously, racking the focus from near to far repeatedly with any lens eats batteries.

I buy (once so far) my CR123As in bulk, 20 batteries for $25 from http://www.botachtactical.com/toscr123a3vo.html and I always carry a spare set or two in my camera bag.

I also find that my batteries will frequently die if I am demonstrating the camera. (Trying to impress the ladies!)

The batteries drain with the amount and kind of use, not the number of pictures taken. If you try, you could drain the CR123As in one afternoon of macro, built-in flash, continous focusing, photography. Or they could last months. Two weeks in not out of the range of normal use, depending on how you use your camera. I think I get about a month of use per pair of CR123As.

CR123As are far cheaper than film and processing!

I wouldn't suspect that your camera is defective. It could be that the batteries died a natural death in the world's greatest DSLR under US$4000.

Read more about batteries in the FAQ section of these forums. http://www.s2pro.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=211

[Ptwig]

Thanks Tom, that's a great relief. I'll follow your advice and only load the 123s on the rare occasions when I'd be tempted to use the pop-up flash.

Speaking of flash, I have an SB28 from my F5, but the S2 is a poor partner when it comes to fully integrated matrix-TTL metering. I'm getting much more accurate results by going fully manual. Do you think this is because of calculation blips due to the chip area being smaller than a 35 mm film frame area is (hence the 1.5 x magnification factor)? If so would a firmware update fix this?

[Tom V]

Originally posted by Ptwig
Thanks Tom, that's a great relief. I'll follow your advice and only load the 123s on the rare occasions when I'd be tempted to use the pop-up flash.


I didn't advise leaving the CR123As out unless they are dead or you're using the AC adapter. I would advise replacing them if they are dead. I leave mine in all the time whenever possible. I prefer to have all the power available that the camera wants and was designed for.

I am not an expert on Nikon Speedlights. I have SB25 & SB28 and have not used them enough to claim 100% satisfaction or found any pattern to any errors. For basic shots, I have had no problems. When I use both together with TTL cords, I have had to do some wrestling to get the exposure where I want it. I cannot blame the flashes really, because I may have been asking them to illuminate and meter things that are too hard to do automatically. I usually use Speedotron studio strobes with totally manual exposure control.

The S2 does not need DX Speedlights like the Nikon DSLRs do, because, as I understand it, the S2 does not use the pre-flash exposure system - the S2 calculates the exposure during the exposure. Personally, I don't know how anything can be determined by measuring light reflected from the sensor surface - that thing is funky looking. I don't know if the system (S2 + Speedlight) takes into consideration the smaller image format when determining exposure.

There are several threads and posts in the forums regarding trouble with exposure and/or flash exposure. Check the FAQ for some ideas.

I have not heard of a firmware update.

[Ptwig]

Tom,

I've been experimenting all weekend to find faults, or limitations to the function of the S2 when it is used minus the 123s. So far, apart from perhaps faster AA battery usage (and with rechargables who cares), I can find nothing significantly different. Of course the pop-up flash doesn't work, yet I can't really imagine any serious situation when it would be needed. Another minor difference is that the viewfinder information display is only active when the shutter button is pressed halfway.

This afternoon I did actually visit a battery specialist to seek more advice and purchase two more of the things ...... Cost A$20.00 (about US$12.00) for the pair. At that price every two weeks I believe I can do without.

Fuji really need to sort out this lithium battery glitch though. At nearly A$4,000.00 for the camera these things just shouldn't happen.

[Tom V]

Ptwig et al,

Since August, I have used the following CR123As:
2 that came with the camera
4 that I bought at the store (US$6.00? per battery)
8 that I bought in bulk* (US$1.25 per battery)
----------
14 CR123As used (7 sets)

I have taken 3670 pictures with the camera.

That comes out to 524 pictures per set of CR123As. That is approximately US$0.0047 per picture (less than half a cent per image) at the bulk rate price.

3670 pictures on film (102 rolls) would have cost me around US$1,000 in film and processing. (E-6 transparency film). Spending $34 on CR123As to have the camera in peak form is not too much in my humble opinion.

If you choose to not use the CR123As and choose not to have the option of the internal flash - I can live with that.

*20 CR123A batteries for US$25 from http://www.botachtactical.com/toscr123a3vo.html which comes out to US$2.50 per set.

[Ptwig]

Tom,

Thanks once again for the feedback. I had taken on board your previous info about bulk purchasing CR123As; in fact I'm currently awaiting a reply from the company whose URL you'd passed on to the forum.

If I can get batteries at that price then of course I would continue using them. Australia is generally at a disadvantage when it comes to freight costs and so I need to see if such a price advantage would apply here.

[MikePL]

Tom, do you really get around 524 pictures per set of lithiums? I have already shot around 1100 pictures on my lithiums and they don't seem to be dying.

[Tom V]

Originally posted by MikePL
Tom, do you really get around 524 pictures per set of lithiums? I have already shot around 1100 pictures on my lithiums and they don't seem to be dying.

In my experience, they never seem to be dying. They are perfectly fine one exposure, then worthless the next. The battery indicator icon shows only if there was enough power for the LAST exposure and enough current to light the icon. I keep a spare set within 10 feet of the camera at all times.

I get AT LEAST 524 pictures per set (2) of lithiums. I never kept a record of when I switched batts in and out, but I do know how many I have left. I am assuming that all the used batteries got used in my S2. I do have one other camera that uses CR123As and I MIGHT have put a set in there. I MAY have given 2 batteries to my assistant for his camera. I MIGHT have a couple lost in a camera bag pocket.

I MAY have used as few as 4 sets, which comes out to 930 pictures per set. (Currently, I have taken 3721 exposures.)

My initial calculations showed the worst possible frames-per-battery results I could come up with.

I wouldn't be surprised if I got more than 1000 out of a set, it seemed like a long time elapsed before I had to change my original set. I recently went through a set in what felt like a week. Either way, it is the cost of photography and/or doing business. It is the least of my worries.

[MikePL]

Ahhhh... Now I get it. At first I was worried that there are such discrepancies with the cameras, but as you presented a might-not-might' scenario, then it seems you could get up to a thousand pictures.

[Tom V]

I don't think there is that much difference between cameras. There may be a little difference between battery brands or lot numbers. I bet there is a huge difference in photographic methods.

The biggest drain on the CR123As are probably the internal flash, the focus assist / self-timer light, and the focusing motor drag. Some people never use the internal flash (I use it on occasion) while others use it all the time. Some people never use the focus assist light, others may use it all the time (I use self timer a lot). Others may be equiped with efficient silent focusing motors, while others use old slow grinding lenses or macro lenses with lots of barrel travel.

I wouldn't be surprised if people got 2000 shots from a set of CR123As, nor would I surprised if they got 100 shots. It just depends on how they use their camera.