a stolen camera nightmare come true

[big_ben_blue]

I'm currently dealing with some not-so-funny business; trying to get some stolen camera gear returned to me. And it's just about to develop into a fullblown nightmare.
What would you do in my circumstances? Here's the lengthy story:

About two years back, somebody stole my van when I was leaving the studio I was working for. I almost catched the guy; but when he took off with the van, my coat became stuck on the side mirror with me still being in the coat :mad: . Aint exactly fun, hanging on the outside of a speeding car. Well, he jumped a curb (almost hitting a light pole), and I managed to get free (thank goodness for the lazy snowplow drivers here in town - the snow on the road softened the fall somewhat; it still hurt of course).
Subsequent dealing with the police reaffirmed pretty much every prejudice out there. Nobody cared the slightest bit (it doesn't come from nowhere, that Ottawa ranks the worst of all canadian cities when it comes to solving property crime). First, they managed to loose the report; then they didn't want to take down any serial numbers of the stolen gear (I was just out of college, and with the accumulated debt, insurance was out of reach for me). Eventually the found my van a few days later; and the guy writing the release papers for it, asked me, why I still wanted to put the serial numbers in the police report: "We don't want your numbers, maybe all your cameras are still in the car". That was the most retarded comment I have gotten from an police officer so far (the phrase "dougnout cowboy" came to my mind; that particular police station was right across from a large dougnout shop). Eventually, I found an officer willing to put the SN's into the report.

Fast forward one and a half years.
While searching ebay, I came across an auction (from a used camera store in my town actually), with a similar camera kit as the stolen one. I went to the store, SN's in my hand, to check it out. Unfortunatelly, the guy handling the auctions for the store, wasn't in that day, but they would call me. Soon after, the auction was cancelled, and I phoned them back. Yes, the SN's did indeed match, but rather than calling police, they gave the stuff back to the guy who had it on consignment. Of course, I filed immedially another report with the local police (Ottawa), but they couldn't do much. After THREE weeks (and endless phone calls), I managed to get hold of the officer handling the report. Well, he in turn referred me to another police force (this time on the quebec side), since that other guy (who had the stuff put on consignment) was from Quebec. Another round of calling around started (I did a lot of switchboard hopping) Everyone there told me that this guy was "a very honest individual", who had filed now an report himself, because he didn't want to be labelled a thief or such. Turned out, that he apparently bought the stuff at a pawn shop, and was just coincidently trying to sell it now again. I got no clue, how somebody was able to sell the gear to the pawn shop in the first place WITHOUT ANY proof of ownership and receipts.

And now the stunner: I might not even get my cameras back since that "honest" person bought the stuff "legally" from the pawn shop (and maybe even with sale receipts that it came from that store), he has a pretty good chance of actually KEEPING the cameras legally!!! :mad: :eek:

What a nice novelty business idea - just steal stuff in Ontario, bring it to Quebec, sell it to any pawn shop there (they don't check), and presto, it's all legal for the guy who buys it. You could start a lucrative business selling stuff cheaplly "on demand" - need a camera, a fancy electonic gadget? Just let one of the friendly guys over there know, and they might have it in store for you in about two weeks for a VERY reasonable price. AND, it's all legal, dude.

I'm shocked to say the least (and feel really down now). And I want my stuff back (still have all the original receipts)!!! Any ideas, how I should proceed now?


Cheers,
Chris :mad:

[Wilm]

Chris,
I can´t provide you any help, but in Germany luckywise a stolen object will be a stolen object until it will be returned to the real owner.

Taking your issue, you would have no problems in Germany. You have be everytime absolutley shure, that the purchased object was in the ownership of the seller. Otherwise you could get guilty too!

A funny thing for me is to hear that a police-officier is not willing to note serial-numbers.

Last year, somebody has stolen my car-radio, ............ , the first thing the officier asked me was the serial-number, following the type and brand.

I would promise to involve the local press. I would not await any further help by local police-authorities.


Crossing my fingers for you !

Wilm

[big_ben_blue]

Wilm,
Thanks for your suggestions; I was thinking about hinting it to the press.
Trust me, I would have NEVER EVER thought, something like this could happen here in Canada. Our laws are a joke!!!


Chris

[ballroom_boy]

Hey Chris,

Sorry to hear about your story. I lived in Ottawa 17 years ago (for 3 years) and my apartment was broken into twice - and yes - all of my photo gear was stolen. Each time, the Ottawa police took the S/N's from me and did "elimination prints" as they found some fingerprints in my place (they stole the TV and a couple other things too) and wanted to be thorough in their investigation. Funny they are acting this way towards you now...

I would write a letter to the Globe and Mail or the Ottawa Citizen... maybe someone there could help you (or at the very least, shine a light on our lackluster Canadian theft laws).

Let us know how this turns out... best of luck to you!

[Tom V]

If you ever see the stuff again - keep it. Take it right out of the store with you. If the shop employees complain, ask them to call the police. How can they arrest you for possessing your own property? If they do arrest you, you would probably resolve the case faster than the current phone method.

I suppose the police there think if a burglar sells stolen goods to a buddy, he could buy them back and legally own them. I see a great flaw in their logic.

In Dallas, Texas, I had my equipment stolen. A few days later the police found some of it at a pawn shop and told me to go get it. They said I might have to pay the shop for it! I went and got what was mine and didn't pay a cent. The guy who brought it to the pawn shop had to present a drivers license, so he was easy to find. He was tracked down, arrested, and sentenced to 4 years in prison. I didn't get back all of my stuff, as the perp supposedly sold some on the street. If you ever see a Minolta XE and a 58mm f/1.2 lens, let me know.

My friend had a Nikon F2 and 300mm 2.8 stolen. 5 months later he saw it in a pawn shop, reached across the counter and took it. The manager protested, and Gary simply said it was HIS and HE WAS TAKING IT BACK.

[Andre]

The whole thing sounds pretty stupid. Sounds like some Ottawa cops maybe weren't doing their job.

You might want to get the RCMP involved, since the stuff crossed the border. It's still illegal to possess stolen goods, so you should be able to get them back.

And yes, contacting the press might wake the police up.

Good luck!

[bcumsky]

He is in receipt of stolen merchandise, period! Regardless of whether he knew or not. No matter how many hands the equipment goes thru the last one holding it gets screwed. The store returned stolen merchandise knowing it did not belong to the consignor and they are responsible as well. I am sure there is a legal aid group that can counsel you. I would file a small claims case aginst the owner here in the States as one option (max value of $3000). Either way, you have registered the SNs at the time of the theft so you should pursue it, and if the consignor sells the equipment to avoid his loss he then will be responsible both criminally and civilly. Go after them! -Bruce

[big_ben_blue]

Thanks guys,

I'll probably have to get some legal aid (if I can manage it financially), but contacting the press wouldn't hurt either.

Funny thing is, that the quebec police not even confiscated the gear from that guy in the mean time. They told me, that he wouldn't sell it for the time being, as he is an honest individual, and therefor the stuff would be safe with him. What's more, some lawyers of him are currently checking into the matter, and I'll get notified of whatever they decided. And if he can provide a simple receipt stating that he bought it at that pawn shop, I'm pretty much out of luck (according to the officer handling the case). Sounds reassuring, or not :tupon:


Chris :mad:

[NZDoug]

Im afraid Police are a luxury in most places that Ive lived, including NZ.
Police worldwide are under resourced, and have to deal with seriouser crime like murder and speeding tickets etc.-Hey,we all have to make a buck.
Basically, you cant be a Bozo with expensive toys.


:tupon:

[Serge]

Thanks guys,

I'll probably have to get some legal aid (if I can manage it financially), but contacting the press wouldn't hurt either.

Funny thing is, that the quebec police not even confiscated the gear from that guy in the mean time. They told me, that he wouldn't sell it for the time being, as he is an honest individual, and therefor the stuff would be safe with him. What's more, some lawyers of him are currently checking into the matter, and I'll get notified of whatever they decided. And if he can provide a simple receipt stating that he bought it at that pawn shop, I'm pretty much out of luck (according to the officer handling the case). Sounds reassuring, or not :tupon:


Chris :mad:


It certainly sounds sickening Chris, my sympathy to your frustrating situation.
We are living in a culture where the message has become that crime does pay, and perpetrators rights must be preserved, while the victims of crime have non :throwup:

[ballroom_boy]

I wonder if you "stole" your stuff back if you would be charged with theft? Considering you have all of your receipts, etc, that would make a great story for the news...

I hope you get justice my friend!

[Sleeping Bear]

The media can be your buddy on this one, Chris. Do you have an investigative TV reporter in your area? A troubleshooter type reporter? Or just a reporter who likes a darn good story? It's the kind of TV story (or newspaper) that they love, it's one they can send down the line to other stations, newswire and so on. I would contact the media since it sounds like the doughnut patrol could care less. Good luck and let us know how it turns out. Hang in there.

[Andre]

Try Action-Line in the Ottawa Citizen. I bet they'd love that one.

[big_ben_blue]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Andre - good tip, I'll give em a try tommorow.


Cheers,
Chris (feeling a bit more upbeat now, many thanks!!!)

[HulaMike]

interesting thread. You need a lawyer though. Mel????? Isn't thre a pro bono legal aid group in Ottawa? Seems to me you just can't go to the shop and swipe your stuff back but if you have all the serial numbers documented, maybe insurance rider info, a good shyster should be able to get these back for you in a hurry.

[NZDoug]

Hey 3B
I wasnt insinuating you were a Bozo.
Ive left my doors open overnight on my vehicle with a Nikon system that went bye bye in the late 80s.
Heres how it works in NZ.
I put my Steinberger bass up for sale in a music store in Auckland.
The place was broken into and I got money from the shops insurance.
Fine.
The following week I saw it in the Trade and Exchange- Buy + Sell paper and showed that to the guy who owned t the robbed music store.
He phoned the cops and they had no time to look into it .
Basically we were told not to worry about it as we were insured so fagedabowtit!
Heres what kids do for fun here.

[jknights]

3B seems like the world is a really screwed up place and that the police are very lazy.

I think I woudl take Tom's advice. Possession seems to bbe truly 9/10 of the law.

[S_Leeper]

I hope you are sucessful in getting your stuff back.
Do try (& try repeatedly if necessary) to get the paper or tv involved with their problem solver.
Also, keep trying with police. You are being a PITA to them & like many overworked & under resourced people they may finally help you only to get you off of their back... but be careful they may take it out on you.
Also, consider filing suit (small claims most likely) againt both person who currently owns & against pawn shop who sold.

Why didn't your employer pay for your equipment stolen from his van while you were working for him???

Do not steal it back--you will get in trouble--cops hate people who take justice into their own hands even more than they hate crooks. (Crooks keep them employed.)
Sad but true the police see this as a SMALL property crime... you got stung with a small property crime--so what, your alive & not living on the street--what's your complaint. Like I said not right, but how it is often viewed.

[Wichita Wayne]

That is a lawyer that can strike fear into the most hardened of individuals. Then go after the pawn shop that sold the guy your stuff. If the man purchased the items from a legal source with good money then the law considers it his legal property. That goes all the way back to English Common Law that both US and Canada recognize. You cannot seek restituution from the new owner of your equipment but you can from the person or business that sold it to him. Most governments require pawn shops to keep pretty good records on things they buy and those can be obtained by your lawyer with a subpoena. If they cannot prove where they got the stuff then they may be in trouble for receiving stollen property. You might even get the name of the person that sold the stuff to the pawn shop and that may lead you right back to the thief. I would say that draging you while he stole your car would be considered aggrivated assult as well as larciny. If your bulldog can get the name of the thief then he will probably go straight to the District Attourney (or what ever it is called in Canada) and file a complaint. Thereby buypassing the police until a warrent is issued for his arrest. And lastly you can always buy back your equipment from the man that wanted to sell it on eBay. That will set the value (plus legal fees) that the pawn shop must pay to settle your case.

If you want justice then you need to see an attourney. In this case you might even be able to go to the local District Attourney's office and get action against the pawn broaker started.

It is also very common for a thief to sell his ill gotten gains to a pawn broaker in a different city. In fact gangs and organized crime in the US usually have networks that send stollen property to associates in other locations to sell in pawn shops.

And lastly, buy insurance. If you are rich enough to afford insurance then you do not neeed it. If you are too poor to suffer the loss then you must have insurance.