compact flash card versus microdrive

[edwin]

i read a memo (i think posted here or dpreview) from fuji that says they do not guarantee compact flash cards and that they recommend smart media and microdrives. their manual says the same. and, if you look at lexar when they list compatibility of their 40x flash cards, they don't list fuji/s-2.

i just bought my s-2, and have been using a lexar 512 40x with no problems.

before i sink a bunch more money in the lexars, do any of you think the money would be better spent on microdrives?

i am a portrait photographer. most of my work is inside.

are the microdrives as fast?

i know the microdrives have moving parts and are not as rugged, but for my inside work, this really isn't an issue.

for me, reliability recording the data is the most important consideration, followed by speed.

thanks for any wisdom you all have to offer,

edwin

[GaryB]

My Hitachi microdrive have just come up with read errors the 3rd time I used it. I don't know whether this is unusual, but it certainly isn't the level of reliability I am looking for......

Gary

[ballroom_boy]

I spoke to Fuji Tech Support last week and they strongly encouraged me to use the microdrive. I currently use Viking, Ridata, and Kingston CF cards, all of which work just fine.

My *guess* is that with the vast number of CF cards out there, it would a disaster for them to support all of them, hence the statement about the MD. I am personally a little nervous about using the MD as it has moving parts and like yourself, integrity of the data (and it's preservation) is of utmost importance to me.

If your Lexar cards work fine, just keep using them. Also, Rob Galbraith has a great CF card database for the S2:

http://robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007-6014

[etompos]

I use and prefer MD's. I shoot weddings and they get banged around quite a bit and I've never had problems with MD's. Many photographers don't trust them, but the fact of the matter is both CF and MD's can fail.

However, I believe that with MD's you are more likely to recover the data if failure occurs. In fact, you can even recover files that have been erased, overwritten, or reformatted several times over--I've actualy done this before using shareware (not because of drive failure--human failure). Commercial recovery services can recover MD data that has been overwritten 10 times or more.

I would wait a bit before investing heavily in CF. Several new manufacturer's of MD's are supposed to start shipping within earily next year. This compitition is supposed to drive the price of 1Gb MD's below $100 and the upper capacity of MD's will increase to 4Gb. At this price, you can use the media for six-months to a year (depending on useage) and retire it.

In the end, all media wear out and the only real protection from failure is systematic replacement. Personally, I log the purchase date and serial numbers of my MD's to track time in service so they may be replaced.

[Wichita Wayne]

Just take your S2 with you and try the CF cards before you buy them. I have done this and ran into a few CF cards that will not work, but never had to purchase them. I have never used Lexar but I know people that have had success with them and some people that have not. I do know that their after purchase service is some of the worst in the business, and this prevents me from buying Lexar. I use, SmartMedia, CF cards and MDs. I have never had a SmartMedia fail to work for any reason. I have had CF cards fail and was able to recover all the pictures with Photo Recovery software. The CF card then formated and gave us no further problems. I have had a MD fail and be recoverable and was able to reformat the thing and it worked fine. Probably the computers OS caused trouble with the MD and CF card format. I have also had a MD fail and not be recoverable. Lucky for me it was right after I had downloaded all the pictures and was reformating it to in the camera to clean it off. That MD did in fact crash and was quickly replaced under warrenty. My son-in-law has accidently run a CF card through the washer and dryer and was still able to download all the pictures. After giving it ample time to dry out. The SmartMedia and CF cards will also not be effected by magnets or x-rays. I like the MD because it is fast and holds 1 GB, but when I buy another 1-2 GB device I will probably purchase a CF card that I tested, before purchase, in my S2.

[etompos]

Fuji could solve this delema by removing the SmartMedia slot, installing another 2 CF slot, and have the camera mirror the data in real-time between two media cards--maybe someday...

[Wichita Wayne]

You must be and engineer of some kind.

[VA_Shooter]

I'm with Wayne on this issue. I've used Promaster and SanDisk CF cards--64MB to 512MB--ever since I owned my first Nikon FinePix point and shoot and I've never, ever had a CF card fail to work or to lose data. My real job is network design and engineering, so I'm gun shy of any device that has moving parts in it because I've replaced a gazillion things with moving parts in them over the past 10 years...thus, micro drives just make me edgy. The idea of a 1.25 square inch hard drive with a disk spinning inside it with a moving arm crossing that disk while the disk is being moved up, down, to the left, right and tilted in all directions is just a bad, bad idea. In my line of business, DRAM, SRAM is always much more reliable than spinning drives that can break. Just my opinion.

[KPRussell]

The attached file is an example of what a MD failure gave me for 78 shots on it.

I had to use "RescuePRO" to even get them ($40 download that night). Camera and computer wouldn't read the shots after I had got home.


4 MD's down to 3 because of the failure.... Soon as I can 0 on my own choice!

Solidstate from here out.

On a sidenote .....
Odd thing is the JPGs imbedded in the RAW files are ok, just the RAW file is whacked. If I look at them in PS 7 the file browser shows the thumbnails fine. In PS CS the new way file browser shows the files is to quickly post to view the thumbnails then it follows behind and shows what the actual view of the RAW file looks like for your Thumbnail.

Any suggestions for my shoot from last week would be appreciated ...


My suggestion to you is stay away from moving parts .... :(

[Curt]

"I have never used Lexar but I know people that have had success with them and some people that have not. I do know that their after purchase service is some of the worst in the business, and this prevents me from buying Lexar."

I will need to disagree. We had (2) Lexar cards fail & their exchance service was immediate. Maybe we are lucky on the service & unlucky with the product.

[frankgh]

I use SanDisk and have not had any trouble. I understand (think it is posted here somewhere) the the 40x is not worth the extra money has the camera does not support it.

[Tom V]

Originally posted by etompos
Fuji could solve this delema by removing the SmartMedia slot, installing another 2 CF slot, and have the camera mirror the data in real-time between two media cards--maybe someday...

The Apple/Fuji Quadcon and the Nikon Quadcon Q-20/20 have 4 slots and RAID storage. See http://theswampbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=621 and/or http://theswampbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=605

The Quadcon Q-20/20 is available not at a store near you.

:beerchug:

But seriously, I have both a Lexar (x24?) 512 MB CF and a 1 Gig MD. My tests of filling the buffer and recording the times showed that the MD card was slightly faster to write to, but a bit slower to start up from the "camera off" state. I have not had a problem with either one, despite dropping the MD 4 feet onto the floor. The MD gets a lot hotter.

If I were to choose which one to put in my pants' pocket and put through the washing machine, I would go with the CF.

Since Fuji markets Smart Media, they have no interest in promoting Compact Flash cards, and in fact they are hardly mentioned (if at all) in the manual.

See the thread / poll which I put my test results in at http://theswampbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=744

[High ISO!]

I have been using 2 (3) MD cards for over 2 years now. One of my first ones failed. I got a replacement overnight! The warrentee on them is one year. I bought mine through Dell, and got a 2 year warrentee. My replacement was free, as long as I sent the bad one back, in the box the new one came in.

I'm not easy on my equipment. I have dropped my MDs on several occassions, with no failures. I had other CF cards including Lexar. I like the MD better. In the S2 especially. It writes faster than my lexars did. It does take a little longer to boot up though.

Alissa

[proberts]

I've had one microdrive for just over a year, and recently got two more. I haven't had any issues with them. Sometime next year, I'll probably end up with at least one 1G CF card, just in case I end up shooting at altitude. By then, I expect the 1g cards will be less than the microdrives I got recently were.

Paul

[David Smith]

Hi S.S.

From having been in the computer field for 18 years in between my photographic businesses, then and now, I would have to say that even a 1Gig Micro drive is a risque venture.

I've already read about the micro's going bad due to either being droped or their tiny mechanism going bad and should that happen when full of images a guy or lady could find themselves in a heap of trouble!!

The technology, as with the digital cameras, is fantastic but IMHO
it's not worth the risk compared to 1 Gig or less CF. I'm an advocate of smaller size cards myself even though the larger CF have proven a lot less subject to failure. :righton:

The CF cards I using now are Ridata and they work very well and I believe their newer cards are 40x R & 35xW?.

[sandman]

I still use the 1 gg Microdrive that i got with my S2, only use it for shooting weddings in RAW . done 8 this year no problems.
For day to day shooting i use smaller (128mb) C/F cards .
Several reasons .
The're easier to downoad , small batches at a time .
If the card is corrupted you only lose whats on that card , not a whole days shoot .
I shoot fine jpeg 3024 the file size is about 2.5 mb depending on the subject , so i can get 51 images on each C/F card .
In my bag .
1 .x.1 gig microdrive
6 .x 128mb C/F
2 .x 256mb C/F All Sandisk.
2 .x 512mb C/F .

I've also got 6 x 64 mb smart media , which i had with my 6800 . and i still keep one in my S2 as well for emergencies.
Got to admit in 3 years of digital i've never had problems with any of my media types.
Never buy cheap brands though , only Sandisk and fuji .

Brian

[proberts]

Originally posted by David Smith
Hi S.S.

I've already read about the micro's going bad due to either being droped or their tiny mechanism going bad and should that happen when full of images a guy or lady could find themselves in a heap of trouble!!


I've dropped mine a couple of times, it's still functioning- you can find the shock and vibration (operational and non-operational) data on the data sheets for the device. I've seen about the same number of failure reports for Microdrives as for CF cards- several photographers have sworn to not use CF because of failures- while others have reported putting Microdrives through the washing machine and still having them operate (something I'd shy away from.)

Unless you're shooting over 10,000ft, I think if you go on reports, the risk of failure is about the same- which should really give pause, since CF cards have no moving parts.

While the knee jerk "moving parts are bad" response is pretty normal (and was certainly my first response,) I think it's worth the time to search and read about failures and make a decision.

I try to let my Microdrives acclimate after they've been outside in the cold, but I probably treat my laptop drive better. 3600RPM drive technology isn't all that magic, especially in an unsealed unit.

Datasheets for microdrives are at:

http://www.hgst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/F532791CA062C38F87256AC00060DD49