Wedding strobes?

[Don65Stang]

I am interested in buying some new strobes for the formal shots with background. I would then like to transfer at least one strobe to the sanctuary for the after shots. Additionally, I want to use a small light behind the wedding party pointed toward their backs.

All of my experience is with white lightenings. Currently I use a SB-80dx, but am leery of blown out whites.

What strobes (with modeling light) would best work for on location work such as weddings? I am interested in purchasing 3 lights: a main, a fill, and a backlight and use umbrellas on the front lights. What wattage would you recommend?

Side note. I viewed some wedding shots from a friends wedding. The photographer setup two strobes with white umbrellas in the balcony. With every shot the entire church was lit up. The pictures had great lighting. I can only imagine how powerful those were. Anyone heard of or use this technique?

Still working this out before I use the S2 at a wedding!

Thanks.
Don

[Rockyw]

Hi Don65Stang

We use whitelightnings for studio work and then take them to the church also. We have two 1600s and a 800. The 1600s are what we use at the church with white translucent umbrelas. We like the whitelightnings because of the slave tripper fires with the on camera flash. The S2 has a strobe-a-frame and a SB80 flash on the. We set the SB80 on manual and 1/16 power, just to fire the strobes. The last couple weddings we set the strobes to 5.6 and the camera to 5.6 or 6.7 if the gown looks blown out. We find shoting RAW so important, sometimes just sitting the bride down will make a 1/3 stop differance on the gown. With RAW and EX you can adjust where with a Tiff or JPEG it's a bad shot. You can tweak with a JPEG a little but not with the resalts of a RAW in EX. If your afraid of blowing out details ( and you should be ) the RAW setting will keep that from happening. As a behind the bride kicker, we use a Vivitar 285 flash ($70.00) and a slave peanut ( $15.00 ) on a stand set to yellow or blue. It fires with the whitelightnings and backlights the vail and gown real well. For larger partys we don't backlight but it would be a good idea to do so. Any thing else I can help you with, good luck.

[Rockyw]

We still shot the ceremony without strobes. The S2 with ISO800, f2.8 and a shutter of 1/30 or 1/45 works most the time. Maybe 2% of a churchs here will allow a flash during the ceremony.

[Don65Stang]

Thanks for the info. I am leaning toward using the WLs. What lenes do you use? I have a Tamron 28-200 f3.8-4.5. At 1600 it seems to work fine but may be too slow at 800.

For the after shots, do you set up both WLs in the church? I've thought about just using one WL and bumping up the diffused SB80 for a fill.

Do you know who has the best deal for the WLs? Typically I use B&H.

Thanks for your settings tips and other info.

[smunky]

I like AlienBees, call them and they will make you a custom package and you will save $.
Fun lights!

[Rockyw]

Don65Stang
I suggest two lights in the church. If the subjects are far enough from the background we set the main (camera right) at 1 stop over the fill light (camera left). If the area is tight like last saturdays wedding. We set both lights the same. If you use one light it will make a shadow on one side of the other. One light centered and the shaddow will be behind the subjects and look bad. We set the lights about 6 feet or so right and left of the camera. If a large group is shot, the lights may need to be brought in closer to the camera so one person is not blocked by someone else. That will cause a shadow on the side of someones face or body. If you stack people in several rows make sure each person has exposure to both lights on the face area. We use a Nikon 28-70 2;8 lens for most formals. For close up work and single subject we sometimes use a Nikon 70-200VR lens. As for buying the whitelightnings I believe no one sells them but the company themselves. They are good people, here the web site.
http://www.white-lightning.com/ They have a 800 number, give them a call, they also have packages, thats what we bought the first time to get started.

[Steve Wynn]

Don65Stang,

I'll echo what the others have said about White Lightning. I think my original set go back to the mid or early 1980's. The serial numbers are in the 2900 range and have been packed up and hauled all over the place. Since I bought them, I've packed them up for over 400 weddings, use them in the studio and have been packed and shipped into about 40 airports from the west coast to the east coast. LOVE THEM!



Steve

[Don65Stang]

I like and know the WLs fairly well. One can hardly beat the quality and dependability. However, they're kinda pricey.

On Kim's recommendation I checked out the www.AlienBees.com site. I was impressed and what a great price. Before Kim's post though, I've never heard of AlienBees.

Does anyone else use these? Pros/cons? The good, the bad, the ugly? Can someone shed some light on these? (Ok, I admit, that was bad.)

If the AlienBees are really a good light then I'm all about saving a couple of hundred dollars.

Thanks, otherwise its the WLs.

[Don65Stang]

Look at this from the AlienBees site:

AlienBees, a division of Paul C. Buff, Inc.
530 East Iris Drive
Melrose, Tennessee 37204


Now look at this from the WL site:

White Lightning is a division of Paul C. Buff, Inc.
2725 Bransford Avenue
Nashville, TN 37204

Notice any similarities? hint - a division of Paul C. Buff, Inc.

So, since it is the same owner, I wonder if it is the same (similar) product marketed to a "new" photographer. I wonder who the target market is - perhaps digital???

Makes me go hmmmm. At any rate, the bees are less expensive.

[Don65Stang]

Hi Don

Thanks for the interest in our products

The differences are the white lightning X series are made of extruded aluminum housings. The same as airplane wings. They also have a brighter modeling lamp & a 5 year warranty.

The Alienbees are made of an injected molded plastic, a smaller modeling lamp & 2 year warranty.

Pretty much that is it.

Hope this helps, I know it is confusing trying to pick. But if I were to get the Bee package I would upgrade to the LS3900 stand. It is holds a lot more weight as if you were going to purchase a softbox or something later it will be able to hold that.

Thanks again

Glynda/Sales

[Don65Stang]

Thanks for writing us! As you’ve discovered, both White Lightning and AlienBees are indeed divisions of Paul C. Buff, Inc., both manufactured and directly sold from us here in Middle Tennessee. As our goal at Paul C. Buff, Inc. is to offer the highest quality products, with the most complete customer care, we offer these two unique lines of lighting equipment to meet the different needs of a diverse audience of photographers.

Here’s our story...
Our president, Paul, began White Lightning in 1982 with the concept of creating consumer-oriented equipment. As the design and operation of White Lightning units continued to get stronger each year, White Lightning flash units became the most popular and imitated lights on the market, earning a reputation for excellent quality with superior customer support. As the craft of photography evolved, and the face of photographers transformed as well, Paul decided to create a second line of flash units, targeting the young, and young-at-heart photographers just arriving in the industry. The AlienBees combine the professional and powerful operation of the White Lightning units with a unique design and marketing approach. Based on years of experience in the field, Paul (known to the bees as King Luap) designed a lighterweight unit with simpler operation, ready to perform for the most serious professional, but comfortable as well in the hands of a beginner.

While we stand behind the quality of both lines, there are differences to note as you make your decision between the two. Both lines of flash units are similar in their design, utilizing advanced durability flash capacitors to feed a single-ring, low impedance flashtube. The White Lightning X800 unit and the AlienBees units all have a stepless 5 f-stop power range, while the White Lightning X1600 and X3200 have an additional quarter-power switch, allowing the units to be powered down an additional 2 f-stops for a total 7 f-stop range. Both lines offer built-in slave trippers for wireless firing, internal fan cooling to keep your unit cool during all-day shoots, and true “what-you-see-is-what-you-get” modeling previews. The X-Series units additionally offer audible warning alarms to indicate heat build-up and mis-fire (in case of a broken flashtube, etc.). Both connect to your camera with a PC sync cord connection, both come with a standard 7-inch field reflector, and both arrive with a user-replaceable 5600ºK daylight-balanced flashtube.

The other differences to note are in the modeling lamp, the modeling lamp adjustment, and the housing. The modeling lamp in the X-Series units is a 250 watt quartz bulb, while the AlienBees units come with a 100 watt bulb. The X-Series modeling output is controlled on the back panel with a separate slider, while the AlienBees modeling lamp can be set to track the changes made in flashpower, but does not have its own slider. On both units, the modeling lamp can be set on Full or completely off, and on both the modeling lamp can be set as a recycle indicator, dimming as the unit recycles, then coming back on when the unit is ready again to fire. The housing of the X-Series units is a high-impact, aircraft grade aluminum, while the AlienBees are housed in a lighterweight, high-impact Lexan (the same material used for bullet-proof glass).

Both lines offer a 60-Day Absolute Satisfaction Guarantee, offering you ample time to test the equipment, and ensure that what you have purchased is exactly what you need and want. Both offer hassle-free, thorough warranty/repair support, with the White Lightnings under a 5-Year Warranty, and the AlienBees under a 2-Year Warranty. While the AlienBees units have a shorter warranty, they additionally offer an easy upgrade policy, allowing you to upgrade your lights within two years for a minimal charge. The AlienBees are offered at a lower price point with an available Student Discount, to make professional lighting available to students and beginners. And of course, the AlienBees are offered in four colors to match the creative courage of those who bee-lieve that photography is an artform.

In the end, we guarantee the quality of both lines, and will stand behind you offering thorough support for whichever lights you choose. It will simply be a decision based on your power needs and operation requirements. Both lines use the same accessories, fitting the same stands, softboxes, reflectors and modifiers, with both ready to be portably powered with our Vagabond Portable Power System. The Sales Directors of both divisions, Glynda at White Lightning and Lori at AlienBees, are two of the most cheerful and helpful sales people that you will ever encounter, and I suppose if you still can’t decide, I could ask them to arm wrestle. :)

With the specific packages that you’ve noted, the output of the B800 and X800 is essentially the same. You can exchange either of the umbrellas, receiving the same package discount, based on your need for a shoot-through/white bounce or reversible silver/white bounce. The carrying bags are designed similarly, with each division’s logo on each bag. The price difference, however, not only reflects the difference in the unit prices, but also the difference in the stands. In the White Lightning package, you have listed a 13-foot extreme duty stand, with a 10-foot general purpose stand in the AlienBees package. Both stands are ideal for use with one light and lightweight accessories such as umbrellas, but we recommend the 13-foot stand for use with heavier accessories such as the boom arm and softboxes. The 13-foot stand can additionally be fit with casters for mobility.

I hope that this information is helpful as you make your decision, but please know that whichever way you decide, we will make sure that you are completely satisfied. Please feel free to write back or call us if you have additional questions. We’re here
Monday through Friday, from 9:00am until 5:00pm, CST, and our Toll Free numbers (in no particular order of greatness) are:
White Lightning 1-800-443-5542
AlienBees 1-877-714-3381

Thank you again for writing, and we look forward to speaking with you soon.

Sincerely,
Natalina Nanni
Art Director

paul c. buff, inc.
nat@alienbees.com
877.714.3381 vx
615.383.0676 fx

www.white-lightning.com
www.alienbees.com
www.lightgearUSA.com

[Steve Wynn]

Don65Stang,

I didn't see it mentioned if it was but I recall (I think) someone saying that the Alien Bees also use the smaller (as opposed to 1/4" plug on the pc cord.

Steve

[Swampy]

yes, they do use the smaller plug, but also have adapters available.

[Wichita Wayne]

Mostly 1500 but we also have a few 1200s as backups. buy the big ones if you can because you can always turn them down if you need to. The main light is usually bounced into a 60 inch umbrella. If we need a second monolight it usually is aimed directly at the background behind the subjects. In a few churches we use two sunpak 544s to light the background. We plug them into wall sockets if we can. At ISO 400 we set the Hasselblads to f-11 or f-8 depending on an incident meter. For digital we set it just like the Hasselblads, manual all the way with these big lights. That means that the on camera flash is set to auto at the appropriate F-stop. Then we adjust the S2's f-stop as required by chimping and checking the histogram. We like high f-stops and the DOF that they offer. With any studio lights we always set the S2 to manual and shoot it just like the Hasselblads. here is an example of a bad church to light, and we lighted it just like I described above. The picture has not been manipulated other than to reduce it in size and even out the histogram a little.

[Rockyw]

Nice image Wayne, by the way that's my real name also. We also have found some churchs hard to light. A lot of dark wood, a background thats far behind the subject, and black tux make a dull dark looking picture. We do like two lights as opposed to one. A second light (camera left) the same setting as the one on camera right would have taken that shaddow away to the side of the alter and on the steps. If only a small on camera flash would have been used on that it would not have been near as nice.

[Wichita Wayne]

But at some point in time the additional light does not really change the picture much. It is nearly 50 feet from the couple back to the rear wall of the church and the celing is too high to bounce much. We usually try to offset the picture if we can. Like the one below. It gives a much better picture and the shadows are gone all together.

[Wichita Wayne]

The real bread & butter shots were outside. I have posted one of them on another thread, and here is the shot that was used on the cover of their slideshow CD. Also the reason that I am using so many shots of this wedding is because the Bride and groom gave me permission to use them here and for marketing purposes.

[Rockyw]

:)