16bit or 8bit RAW conversions???

[puglover]

I don't often shoot in RAW, and the few times that I have I have converted the images using the 8bit option. Can anyone shed some light for me on the other two options (16bit Adobe and 16bit Fuji) as opposed to the 8bit RGB jpeg? Pros and Cons? Adobe can't use 16bit jpegs, so what is the effect on the image if I convert it to 16bit Tiff and then convert again to an 8bit Tiff? And finally, is all this converting worth it? help :(

[puglover]

Why not just shoot in Tiff mode and save all this conversion? When I read the forum about what mode everyone was shooting in I don't remember one person saying they shot in Tiff mode...why? Space issues?

What is the difference between a RAW and a TIFF file?

[Swampy]

I can help out a little with the TIFF and the RAW differences, but as for 8 and 16 bit, all I can tell you is 16 bit is better, but that you're correct that Photoshop can't do it yet....Yet. Wait for PS CS in a few months.

No one really shoots TIFF becuase, one, it's a large file at 30 some odd megs a piece I think. There's nothing to gain by shooting TIFF over RAW, except, that there is basically "no processing time" to get to TIFF. However, you will not have the advantages of the white balance, Color and EV adjustments that can be done easily with RAW. I know the processing time is killing some people, but, it's worth it if you have the time and you're unsure of the out come of your shots. If I'm going to do a professional scale job, I'm shooting RAW. If I'm shooting for family or myself or for fun, I'm shooting 4256 JPG Fine.

RAW is basically the straight output of the CCD stored in the file. No processing is done other than adding EXIF information and a small 1024 jpg for viewing on the CCD, which can be extracted later as well. Only a few programs can even read the RAW format and are used for converting to TIFF with the ability, as mentioned above, to tweak a lot of settings, Color and EV (brightness/contrast if you will) beyond the normal ability to tweak in a TIFF or JPG with Photoshop or comparible software. Thus, smaller file than TIFF and this editing ability is the reason RAW is used so often. In the back of my mind, the question still rises - hey, why not get the shot done right the first time... :P I'm just kidding there though. RAW leaves you with some great flexibility for fixing white balance and exposure, where if you under expose a shot, you can bring it out without really destroying the image. You'll also have some leniency with over exposeds shots, but, once detail is blown out, it's gone and you'll never get it back.

Ok. Enough of my wanna be book. Someone else can fill in the rest. Hope this helps a little.

[puglover]

thanks swampy for that detailed response, it does help. But still a few questions...

If photoshop can't take the 16bit TIFF files - then where are you doing the editing? I haven't explored the supplied Fuji software much - is that where everyone is doing these advanced white balance and color fixes that I keep hearing about? And if I am using photoshop - are the 8bit Tiff converted from RAW that much better than the 12MP fine jpegs that I should take the time?

[Swampy]

In my opinion, if you have Photo Shop, you shouldn't need anything from the software that came with your camera, except the EX Converter which is the RAW Converter software.

That's all I use, and I'm sure most others too. I, as most everyone else is going 8 bit for now, waiting for 16 bit compatibility.

People are doing the White Balance, Color, Possibly sharpness, etc. in the RAW converter or the RAW plugin for Photoshop. RAW to TIFF will always be better than JPG when it comes down to it. Whether you or the people who look at the pics can see the difference is what makes the difference in my opinion.

Everyone I asked except for two people, couldn't tell the difference between Fine JPG's and RAW>TIFF and those two people didn't matter to me, so I shoot mostly Fine JPG. BTW, they both needed a magnifier to see the difference on an 8x10 print from a Frontier printer. I agree with everyone else, TIFF is better from RAW. But for me, JPG works.

[puglover]

OK, thanks, you answered my questions - now I will get to converting :)

[puglover]

Does everyone convert the RAW images to the 8bit and then the 4256x2848 size? I guess if you were positive you didn't need huge prints you could use the next smaller size...

I can see the advantages - but man, for a 200-400 image wedding - converting all those RAW files is going to be a killer. They have got to come up with an easier way! :)

[rsvpgrfx]

photoshop 7 has some limited 16 bit functionality

[Swampy]

Right. I forgot to mention the PS7 will edit a 16 bit file. But you will not be able to save it as a JPG.

[puglover]

Since you can't duplicate layers using PS 6's 16bit capabilities it makes it pretty worthless for me :(

I used the RAW mode as well as the 12MP jpegs last night for a live show (low light situations) and I have to say I am sold on both. The RAW is better (and those came out really nicely), but the 12MP jpegs were very nice as well. I had the sharpness turned off all night and I have been converting today - the results really are much better. I have yet to do any tests using RAW for some of the outdoor problems I am having... longer distance shots, group shots etc...but I will. I am going to have to get some bigger CF cards if I am going to be using these higher settings more often or possibly all the time. :)

This was shot RAW, at ISO 1600, sharpness OFF, F 1.4 using Nikkor 50mm 1:1.4 D, 1/750s, Matrix metering:

[StormChaser]

Since I'm a hands on kinda guy, without much photography experience, I shoot in RAF format by rule.
First reason is that playback of your shots is faster on the road(so I can chuck the bad ones), and second reason is that I can reset all these things, I do wrong all of the time, in the raw converter.

And I get 80 shots from a 1gig drive, I saw that 77 is also comon, but that may be the drive make in itself.

[puglover]

Ok, i have a question - what's the purpose of the little jpeg file that goes along with the RAW files? How do I get rid of it, and do I need to?

[Andre]

Originally posted by puglover
Ok, i have a question - what's the purpose of the little jpeg file that goes along with the RAW files? How do I get rid of it, and do I need to?

I use those to create contact sheets. Very quick to extract.

[puglover]

And how exactly would you do that? Extract the jpeg? what program are you using for contact sheets?

[Andre]

Originally posted by puglover
And how exactly would you do that? Extract the jpeg? what program are you using for contact sheets?
I'm using the Exif Extractor program to get the JPGs, then I use LView to make contact sheets. LView does this extremely quickly.
PS Elements will do it too, but much more slowly.

[Wichita Wayne]

To see the JPG image that is in a RAF file all you need to do is make a copy the RAF file and then change the file extension to ".jpg". Then use any standard viewer to load and woek with the JPG image. It is a high quality 1440 x 960 pixel JPG that has hot been demosaiced and interpolated like a normal JPG image file.

[CaptJR]

If would be nice if it could go both ways. I use fine jpg, but maybe occasionally I'd like to change the white balance or ev.

Someone make us a converter from fine jpg to raw:)

JR

[bjnicholls]

A few things:

Photoshop currently has limited 16bit editing, but I do the any necessary edits that are possible in high bit mode (curves, color adjustments, sometimes sharpening, and conversion to another colorspace) before dropping to 8 bits.

Photoshop CS (the name for Photoshop 8 that's shipping next month) will have extensive 16 bit support including layers.

Jpeg 2000 supports 16 bit bitmaps if you really need the compression.

Save your raw files since the software tools for conversion and editing are improving. It's like hanging onto negatives, only the "darkroom" technology for digital is still evolving and improving.

Inventing a jpeg-to-raw converter is like inventing a hamburger-to-cow converter. Once you've dumped the raw data, it's gone forever.

[Wichita Wayne]

One thing that you can do is to switch to RAW when you see a shot that you might want to do some of the RAW only stuff on. Then switch back to JPG. Keep doing that and you will wind up with a few RAW files and a lot of JPGs on your card. If you use two cards then you can put RAW on one and JPG on the other but that is getting too anal for me.

[MASH]

The manipulation from Raw format is well worth the additional effort. Can often get the tone, contrast and color that i want from EX (slow but lots of manipulation). I tend to convert to 16 bit, and shift over if I need tools that only work in 8 bit (CS will allow 16 bit editing tools throughout I understand).