Built in flash with AC adapter?????

[Marvo]

I Haven't forked out for an AC adapter yet, instead I've got an Ansman external 3000mAh battery pack which clips onto my belt and plugs into the DC in socket on the camera. (It also recharges in the cigar lighter in the car!) . I'm assuming that the camera thinks that this is a regular input from the Fuji AC-DC adapter so as per the manuals' instructions, I remove the Lithium CR123s (why this should be necessary, Fuji only knows). The only snag is that the built-in flash doesn't work. Could someone confirm to me that the flash is also not available when using the AC adapter and that the flash can only draw its chrge from the Lithiums.
But the biggie question is.... What damage is likely to be caused by leaving the Lithiums in and WHY oh WHY oh WHY is the camera not supposed to be able to handle an external DC input with the Lithiums sitting in the camera. If the Fuji chief designer has got a gas cooker with an electric oven (like I have) he doesn't expect to have to diconect the gas supply whenever he wants to roast a chicken.... does he???.....:rolleyes:

Marvo.

[Tom V]

You are supposed to take the CR123s out before you plug in the AC Adapter. Without the CR123s, the flash will not fire. In fact, the orange LCD panel says "CLOSE [FLASH] W/0 CR-123." You can press the shutter button, but nothing will happen except the camera will beep at you.

Why you have to take the batteries out is beyond me. I would guess that there is some circuitry overlap somewhere inside between the Nikon and Fuji halves of the camera. Supposedly, the CR123s power the autofocus, depth of field preview, internal flash, exposure meter, etc., but when you take them out, those functions, except the flash, are powered by NiMH AA batteries. The manual says not to use only Alkaline AA batteries if the CR123s are removed.

Obviously, the AC adapter does not put AC power into the camera, but rather transforms it to DC, so your external DC power supply would probably cause the camera to behave exactly as the AC Adapter would.

I think I have heard that the CR123s discharge quickly if the AC adapter is used and the CR123s are left in. Perhaps this quick discharge causes too much heat, or having three power sources in the camera is too confusing for the little brain inside. It sounds like the circuits are intermingled, and that some diodes are missing.

But I am not an electrical engineer. I reason that a battery has a + on one side that means it has power, and the - on the other that means it has negative power. I reckon that in the middle of the battery it is neutral, and has no power. Why don't they make a battery with + power on both ends?:rolleyes:

Then they would be easier to load!:D

[Tim]

Electrical current is made up of electrons which are emitted by the negative pole and attracted to the positive pole. Without a dissertation on Ohm's and Kirchoff's laws here, let's just say that you must have a path between the (+) and (-) for current to flow- without current flow, power can not be developed.

The S2 battery conundrum is interesting. It doesn't appear that the circuit configuration is trying to charge the 123's because they discharge on the AC adaptor. It is possible that they are using simple diodes for switching between supplies, and in certain voltage combinations they don't have the proper bias, and turn themselves on or off erroneously.

Anybody got the schematic? We'll get to the bottom of it!

Tim

[rsf777]

Where did you get the Ansman battery pack, and is still working the way you like it. This constant buying of AA's is getting old.

[PauHana]

I too am tired of buying batteries - so I bought a Quantum external with its own cool little "gas gauge". I then read about it frying the circuitry and called Quantum and Fuji. Quantum says go ahead and use it, Fuji says not to. I haven't used it yet in fear of ruining a $2400 camera. What to do ?

[Tom V]

Stop buying AA batteries!

Get yourself some Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) rechargeable batteries. Four 1800 mAh batteries only cost about $10, and a charger only costs another $15. Get yourself a few sets of batteries, use one set, have another ready, and be charging the last ones you used. They last at least 300 shots, typically 500 shots.

NiMH batteries have virtually no memory (of previous partial charges or discaharges (the way NiCads do)), and they don't require a cord, or screwing something to the bottom of the camera, or losing the function of your built in flash. The batteries can be charged 1000’s of times. You can get chargers that charge a set of batteries in 2 hours - which is faster than most of us can deplete a set in the camera.

If you go through more than 5 sets per day (1500-2500 exposures), you should be more selective in your photography, or get a movie camera.:D

[Marvo]

The Ansman 3000mAh battery pack comes from www.digibattery.co.uk (in the UK) so I don't know if this is much help. The battery pack (and the camera) still work fine.
Marvo.

[Stormfield]

Some S2 users have modified the MB-16 battery pack to fit the camera and have claimed a dramatic increase in the number of internal flash pix that can be taken before a battery change. The MB-16 takes 4 AA (1800 NiMH would be best), and some have written how it extends the battery life of the other camera batteries as well. Though I have an MB-16, I haven't tried this "modification" yet--I have emailed Fuji support just this AM to ask them if this (apparently) widely practiced modification is OK--haven"t heard anything yet. There is an extensive discussion on this with links to photos of the modification on the Dpreview Forum: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1020&message=3303759.

[traumlandschaft]

Regarding the possibility I spoke with Fuji Germany during a special event in my favorite Shop, and they were quite supprised that this would be possible. The discussion ended in the Nikon-Department of the Shop, and we made a try-out with a new MB-16, refurbished by using a Dremel Tool.

Result: "Hey, that's cool, we will communicate this internally to stop all complaints about the expensive CR123". Technically there would be no problem, because it's just "passing energy".

Anyway, I have nothing written in my hands, but what shall brake if you use the MB-16?

Regards

traumlandschaft

[rsf777]

I think my problem has been solved. I just purchased a 30w battery pack, along with a cable for the S2 and a soft carrying case for the battery pack from digitalcamerabattery.com for $319. I also got a quiet (very quiet) approval of the setup from a S2 dealer. If it works out as well as I expect it to I'm gonna get the 60w battery pack also.......:) :D

[jknights]

I have a Compaq Ipaq and the AC powersupply for that is universal (100-240v, 50-60Hz) so it works anywhere in the world.
The connector is the same as the S2 and it's output is 5V.
What could be better.

Take a trip to your local PC store and get a spare Ipaq power supply. Very cheap ~ $30. if I remember correctly.

[Mike Flood]

Fact: Each CR123 is rated at 3.0 volts. Thus two in series yield 6.0 volts.

Fact: The External supply (AC Adaptor supplied by Fuji) is rated at 5 volt @ 2 amp)

Visualize two vessels containing a liquid. One has 5 gallons in it and the other 6 gallons.
Further, imagine that on the other side of the 5 gallon vessel there is an overflow drain at the 5 gallon level.
Now if an opening is made between the two vessels at the level of the one with the 5 gallons, liquid will flow from the

If you have an opening between the two at the level of the lower one (5 gallon) then liquid in the 6 gallon vessel will flow into the 5 gallon vessel until it's at the 5 gallon level. Since there is a drain at the 5 volt level it cannot rise to an equal level.
In this analogy the drain is the regulated voltage of the AC supply.
If you use an external supply of greater than 6.0 volts it will attempt to charge the CR123's. Doing so could cause them to explode if they get too hot. Most external batteries such as the Quantum supply more than 5 volts, usually around 6.0
Circuit in the S1 or S2?
There are no diodes between the AA's battery compartment and the CR123 compartment. This path was created by the "Dummy" battery supplied with the S1. Now that has been replaced by two small switches inside the CR123 compartment.

Placing diodes (which have a forward voltage drop of between .3 and .6 volts would provide even less than 5 volts to the circuits served by the CR123 and the camera would most likely not work.

Leaving the CR123's in place during use of the camera with the AC Adaptor doesn't damage anything but your wallet by discharging the lithiums to an un-useable level requiring replacement.
I hope you were able to follow that theory.

By the way, be sure that you double check the battery door to make sure that it's firmly snapped shut. It can dome open and dump your CR123's.

[jknights]

Mike,

I think I understand your logic but using your picture of two vessels, one a five gallon vessel and the other a six gallon vessel attached at the five gallon mark overflow. I would assume that both then achieve the five gallon level. Am I understanding your logic ?

If so then I would assume that the CR123s should not discharge (fully)when the AC adapter is in place. Or if they do they only discharge to 5V. (= 2.5v each)

Help my brain hurts !!:confused:

[jknights]

Read through muy S2 manual.

Nowhere does it say that there is a need to take out the CR123A batteries if I am using the AC adapter.

Is this a learning from experience or a difference in manuals between US and Europe.

[Mike Flood]

It is true that the CR123's would not fully discharge, but rather be taken down to 5 volts.
The camera would perceive this as too low for use and (probably) give you an error or refuse to function with those lithiums in place.

[Mike Flood]

Originally posted by jknights
I have a Compaq Ipaq and the AC powersupply for that is universal (100-240v, 50-60Hz) so it works anywhere in the world.



The connector is the same as the S2 and it's output is 5V.
What could be better.

Take a trip to your local PC store and get a spare Ipaq power supply. Very cheap ~ $30. if I remember correctly.

This is a good tip but you should keep in mind that "anywhere in the world" is contingent on having an adaptor to use to plug in to the appropriate socket type.

[jknights]

Hi Mike,

Absolutely right. However most good hotels have shaver sockets that fit the American mains plugs and it gives 110AC

Make sure you have a 2pin flat (American) to two pingn round adapter for Italy :D

Enjoy your holiday.

[Mike Flood]

Originally posted by jknights
Hi Mike,

Absolutely right. However most good hotels have shaver sockets that fit the American mains plugs and it gives 110AC

Make sure you have a 2pin flat (American) to two pingn round adapter for Italy :D

Enjoy your holiday.

I have an adaptor for US flat to Italian round.
Most of my power use will be via the really neat little switching supply that plugs in to Italian AC and provides 12 volts DC @ 1 amp from a car lighter type socket. This will power my battery charger to recharge AA's and run/recharge the X-drive.
I'm taking my Fuji AC Adaptor and a conversion cord I made.

I think I'll be in good shape. And I have lots of CR123a cells and 4 sets of NiMH AA's

[Marvo]

Can you guys help me with this one?
The camera takes 4x NiMH cells @ 1.2v each = 4.8v
The camera also takes 4x AA alkalines @ 1.5v each = 6v
.....and it works fine in both cases.
Curiously the manual says the camera will run all functions (except internal flash) on the (4.8v) NiMH cells only. It also says NOT to run the camera on (6v) AA alkalines only - UK manual page 25 "when you have difficulty obtaining NiMH batteries".
As I'm no Einstein :D :D :D , who can throw some light on this?

Marvo.

[Mike Flood]

Originally posted by Marvo
Can you guys help me with this one?
The camera takes 4x NiMH cells @ 1.2v each = 4.8v
The camera also takes 4x AA alkalines @ 1.5v each = 6v
.....and it works fine in both cases.
Curiously the manual says the camera will run all functions (except internal flash) on the (4.8v) NiMH cells only. It also says NOT to run the camera on (6v) AA alkalines only - UK manual page 25 "when you have difficulty obtaining NiMH batteries".
As I'm no Einstein :D :D :D , who can throw some light on this?

Marvo.
I've not tried using AA Alkalines in place of NiMH AA's.
I've no idea why the pop-up flash doesn't work when the rest of the camera functions that are fed by the CR123's such as focus etc continue to.

I just live with this the way it is. I'll experiment with AA Alk's ASAP