More Diffinitive Answer on New Hardware?

[Swampy]

I've been mulling this over for a couple of weeks now and haven't been able to come to a solid answer here. All the answers I get are "this should be fine". I'm not looking for that kind of answer.

I'm looking to build the ultimate photoshop machine. Cost isn't really a factor and storage isn't a factor either. I will want some modest (but fast) storage in the box for local editing, but the majority of images will be stored on a server. To give you an idea of the investment, the serverS will be identical and will start out with 5 terrabytes each. They will be mirrored for backup and raided.

The PC will have three 30 inch Apple Cinema Displays, but must remain a PC, not a MAC. Besides, I think the MAC's will only do 2 displays at this size and resolution.

This leaves me with very few options as I'll need 2 PCIe slots running at 16x.

My questions lead more towards which processor(s) is going to be the best to use. Intel? AMD? Dual Core? Extreme? Dual Xeon? From what I've been reading, while the AMD has been outperforming the Intel's in general, the Intel's have been performing better in Photoshop which is my only concern.

Memory isn't a big deal. What ever the motherboard that I go with can handle, it will be maxed out, probably 4 or 8 gigs.

Operating system. XP 32 or 64? Will the new dual core Intels (if that's the way I go) handle XP 64? I hear they're emulated 64bit.

Drives, I was planning on having 2 10k rpm 74 gig SATA drives striped for a boot drive and a couple more probably 7200rpm SATA 300 or so gb drives striped for a scratch and data set.

I think those are the only main concerns here. Other things are accessory type items anyway - card reader, DVD burner, etc. There's only a couple of video cards that can do what I need, so the decision on that isn't a tough one either.

Any insight to this would be appreciated. Remember, I'm not looking for "should work fine" answers.

Thanks,

Bryan

[Swampy]

BTW - I contacted someone at Adobe through my office. They were absolutely no help. To the point of being stupid.

First response was they'll see what they can find out, but couldn't recommend a specific brand.

Second response was from a tech our rep talked to who said "fast processor, lots of memory and a big scratch drive". Well, no kidding.

Third and last unexpected response from our rep was a direct cut and past of Photoshops "hardware requirement" text.

Man, I've been in management too long. Does anyone know what they're doing anymore? It's also difficult to find an "overclocking" site or hardware review site that can help as they usually don't run a benchmark on processing RAW files. hehe. Even back in my day, this would be a difficult situation for me since it was all about processing Microsoft Office type things while getting the highest frames per second in the latest hot video game.

Anyway, thought I'd share the Adobe experience.

[Wilm]

Bryan,
I can't give you detailed answers to your questions. I have done the move from Intel towards AMD ( based on pricing ) and when I am comparing my 2.8 GHz Laptop with 1 GB RAM with my 2.8 GHz Athlon desktop with 1 GB RAM I can't see any difference in speed based on RAW-files.

But there is an other thing overclockers are talking about: HEAT !
A AMD CPU gets much warmer than the Intels which means that your fan will be loud as hell !

Hope my 1/2 cent has helped a little bit on the CPU decision.

:cheers:
Wilm

PS.: Here is my fan-solution : water-cooling :dunce:

[Swampy]

Thanks Wilm. Been there, done that. 2.4ghz P4 running at 3.5 watercooled was pretty cool. Waterpump went out and I never really looked back at it, even though the processor survived I opted to go back to air cooling cause I was too lazy to install a new waterpump.

I can do anything I want with this system including refridgerant. However, I will be sticking to traditional cooling methods with this. I just want to make sure I go with the right processor. So that pretty much leaves me with 3 choices. Intel Extreme, Intel Dual Core Extreme (less Cache though) or the AMD X2. Again, I'm looking for definitive here. Which one is faster at converting a RAW file? Or are they all around the same speed, as in less than 1/4 second difference in convert time?

[HulaMike]

wow. Invite me to the baptism! Three 30" Apple displays and all that muscle? I'd take a trip to the mainland just to see this ultra machine in operation B.

[AzRich]

just three?

What about one behind you?

Just make sure what ever card you buy can drive the displays at their native resolutions.

BTW- two dell 24" displays look great on a mac :)

[Swampy]

When it's done, I'll be sure to send the invite. This machine will be set up in a very nice warehouse which also houses a few million in a couple of cars/motorbikes and other toys. There is a studio section that's almost finished too. The gentleman is more than gracious enough to let me bring people by just about any time to show off and he likes it. heh.

The cards I buy will be able to drive them, according to Apple anyway. Like I said, only have one or two choices for the video cards.

[proberts]

All the benchmarks I've seen have been with CS, not sure if CS2 will actually use a dual-core system versus CS where dual core systems spent too much time trying to manage CPU threads...

A bit of Googling later:

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=a64x2&page=8

The 83.1 was the previous best Intel benchmark for a dual core HT enabled processor. There's not a huge gap, but I'd go with the AMD in case something else like a RIP enters the equation. Also, from the summary of the above page:

With this much computing power, it’s amazing to witness how little power these chips consume while running. They consume about 33% less power compared to Intel’s dual core lineup while at the same time delivering better performance most of the time. In addition, the chips are far easier to cool, which will lead to lower noise (more enjoyable) computing environments. AMD is bundling a very good retail cooler with these chips which keeps the chips nice and cool while staying near silent. AMD’s 90nm SOI manufacturing process is producing some amazing products – the engineering teams behind these chips should be proud of their accomplishments.

Paul

[Swampy]

After all was said and done, I've been immersed in this project along with other things, which is why I've been away for a while. It's all been consuming my time completely.

I've gone with the 3.2ghz Intel Dual Core Extreme processor, 8 gigs of PC4200 memory to start with this machine. Quadro 4500 512mb video PCIe video card solved a lot of my video problems with the three 30 inch Apple Cinema displays. A second PCIe nVidia 7800 256mb video card was added to control the 3rd display temporarily. But there's something more into this project that we decided to do. Everyone said 3-4 screens couldn't be done at the native resolutions, but I had to do it and did. I'm still going to go with duplicate machines however and a desktop sharing program to link the mouse and keyboard to both machines at the same time making it look like a single machine driving all three screens. In reality, a second machine on the left monitor will be doing batch processing while leaving the first machine completely open for PS manipulations and other tasks.

4 250gb SATA II drives will be used for temp storage and boot. 1 single for boot and 3 stripped for scratch area. All machines will run Quadro 4500 512mb cards, one for each monitor, so 3 of them.

Between the Antec case I chose (with sound dampening) and the CPU heatsink (heatpipe stuff), the case is about as loud as my standard work Dell D600 laptop. Both systems will have 2 Sony 16x dual layer DVD drives in them as well.

Now that this part is more or less done, I need to concentrate on the server and network stuff. Uhg. Looking at 2 duplicate servers running raid 5 somewhere between 10 and 16 terrabytes right now. I have some software that will sync the two servers for totally live backup and redundancy. The software will be able to tell if the primary server goes down and will automatically switch over to the secondary server, even taking over the primary's MAC, IP and Computer name. If the raid completely fails, the secondary will take over. We're also thinking about doing a third duplicate in another location to perform the same duties as the secondary server in case the place goes up in flames. Not sure where I'm going with that just yet, but I'll have to work on the automated offsite backup stuff still.

I'll take a picture of the new system soon and post it. I'm only running 1 stick of 2gb memory right now as I forgot to order 2 more originally and 1 from the order was bad. So the machine is running a little slow right now.

While watching 9 divx movies, I'm popping open a 1Ds (16mp) raw file in 4 seconds. When I get the other memory in, I'm hoping that time will be cut to 1.5 - 2 seconds along with the other system being in place as well.

Waiting for the parts to arrive for the second system now as well as the memory for the first one. The video cards are basically hand built by nVidia and are on order, but will take a week to get done.

More to come later....

Oh yeah, did I mention the resolution on these screens is 2560x1600 each. So that comes to a total resolution of 7680x1600 or around 12.3mp.

[AzRich]

Golly.

Can't wait to see the pix!

[Swampy]

Ok. I know you've been waiting, but this is a side project. Got the parts for the second system, but we're still waiting on the video cards. To add balance to the photo, I just set the second system on the left side. It is not working yet, just started putting it together and have to install the OS still. So, these 3 screens are being driven off the system on the right side. Didn't have time to try more timed tests yet though. But at least you can see what I'm working with a bit. I didn't take any shots of inside the system yet because I need to clean up the wiring inside still. Anyway, drool with me. :o

I've already been using it to edit some pics for another project today too.

The left monitor has the Canon Zoom Browser/Raw Converter up on it, which will be processing images all on it's own. The other two screens will be utilized with PS and Adobe Bridge to do final tweaks on one system while the main batches are being converted on the other system. This is just one scenario though. :)

[HulaMike]

....................wow

[corneliaB]

(drooling) WOW.....

[easternherp]

As others have said.......WOW.........

a-ha but look, you couldn't do it without the help of Apple :lol:

[Wilm]

WOW :eek:

Comapred to that, my computer is more like a 1$ pocket calculator from Walmart :dunce:

:cheers:
Wilm

[Swampy]

As others have said.......WOW.........

a-ha but look, you couldn't do it without the help of Apple :lol:

Ha Ha.

Actually, I could have, sorta. See, these Apple screens came in as second choice to use. The first choice wasn't an option as the resolution was too high to do 3, well, even 2 on one machine. There are some build to order screens from IBM that we were going to use, but doing the research, no one built a video card to handle 2 screens at it's native 9mp resolution, which is twice that of these Apple screens. There were only a few video cards that would drive a single one of these and they couldn't be used in conjunction with another one to drive a second one. :( :D

[Swampy]

Ok, cleaned up the wiring in the case. Now I just have to wait for the video cards to show up. The two that are in there now are an nVidia Quadro 4500 512mb and an nVidia GeForce 7800GT. Both are dev cards loaned to me from nVidia for this project and I'm just waiting for the permenant cards to show up which will be again, 2 Quadro's.

Here's a quick pic of the inside of the case though.

[Linda G]

You know, this is a killer setup for a photographer or graphic designer and they are the least likely to be able to afford this stuff!

Go figure.

Meanwhile, he looking to hire someone full time to do this for him? (she said, brushing up her resume)

[SSonnentag]

Wow, nice setup. I'm not familiar with those CPU coolers. Are they simply HUGE finned radiators with a single 120mm fan pulling air across them and out the top of the case? How high are your temps running under idle/load?

I see you chose ASUS for the MB. ASUS is the way to go in my opinion....good company...stable....reliable, etc.

I just picked up two 30-inch Apple Cinema displays for my dual power Mac. They're certainly nice monitors. :)

Shawn

[Swampy]

Wow, nice setup. I'm not familiar with those CPU coolers. Are they simply HUGE finned radiators with a single 120mm fan pulling air across them and out the top of the case? How high are your temps running under idle/load?

I see you chose ASUS for the MB. ASUS is the way to go in my opinion....good company...stable....reliable, etc.

I just picked up two 30-inch Apple Cinema displays for my dual power Mac. They're certainly nice monitors. :)

Shawn

Yeah, 3 heat pipes that curl straight up with copper fins to cool. It's a pretty tall cooler. The case I used has a 120mm fan blowing across the fins from the top and another 120mm fan blowing out the back at a 90 degree angle very close to the cooler.

Couldn't stand those 24" Samsungs anymore eh? I just ordered another 30 incher for a new guy at work. Love them things. Though, 3 of 9 of them broke in the first few weeks.... :(

[Mobius Entwine]

Here's part of the computer I've made,
Saving me money I otherwise would paid.
I collected unwanted drives,
Of iMacs done with their lives.
I got a whopping one-forty-four gigabyte raid!

[Mobius Entwine]

Heres a shot of my primary mainframe unit
Showing the backup security tape running onit
Most of the internals
Are really externals
We are thinking of upgrading, anyone wantit?

[Mobius Entwine]

My old processor had overclock cheating
Making it subject to computer overheating
It took 45 minutes to bake
At 8.5 MHZ it started to shake
And at five thirty five we were eating.

[Melody]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Melody

[SSonnentag]

Good stuff, Mobius! :goldcup: