HP Designjet 130

[crabby]

I just purchased this printer largely prompted by HulaMike's recomendation. I must say it was a great investment. I've had LightJet prints and Chimera's made and our studio has an Epson 9000, and this printer at it's maximum size is as good or better (mostly better) as far as image quality goes. If you want to make your own large prints up to 2'x3' and have the space for such a machine this one is hard to beat at any price.

[HulaMike]

Hi Mike.

I'm glad your experience matches mine with this fine printer. Further surprises await you once you see how economical this printer is to operate.

I know you're also a Pixel Genius Photokit Sharpener fan. There's a great chat list created by the developers of PKS that has loads of good advice re using PKS with the DJ130. Bruse Fraser is one of the moderators and answers questions fairly often. He mentions that if using a 6MP file from something like the S2, to start out with a Mid Size Rez Capture and to keep your output size at 180ppi minimum for inkjet printing. This can be a challenge with an S2 file as many size to 130-140ppi at 24x36. Bruce suggests that PKS is designed to work best with a file at native resolution but if you need to rez a file up to use CS Bicubic Smoother to 240ppi and to then output sharpen at 240. I've produced great looking 24"x36" prints sent to the 130 at 180ppi though.

Here's the link to the PKS site if you need it:
http://forums.pixelgenius.com

Use this ID and password to get in the first time, its the same one they'll send you if you go the long way around and ask by email, its case sensitive:

pg-forums
PHOTOSHOP-RULES

After your first visit you can set up a personal ID and password.

Here's another good resource for setting up and using the DJ130, from a Canadian photographer living in Paris, Neil Snape. He's employed by HP as a spokesman I gather and is very knowledgeable about the 130. He often replies to questions at DPReview under the moniker ColorGeek:

http://www.neilsnape.com/color/hpdj30130_calibration/index.html


Cheers!

PS: Are you using HP Premium Plus papers and if so are you using the stock profiles?

[crabby]

Interesting tidbits, Mike. I've been to the PG Forum when they first opened shop but I forgot to bookmark it so thanks for the link. Now if only I could remember my password. The info you passed along is pretty much the way I have always done it except I ran the capture sharpen on hi rez instead of mid. That's the toughest one to decide which is best without spending a lot of time trying them all. Often I have a hard time deciding if wide, narrow, or ultrafine edge is best because the image has some of each criteria.

While we're on the pixel genius subject, did you also purchase Photokit along with the PK Sharpener. It has some nice global sharpening filters for inbetween the capture and output sharpen.

My biggest problem with this printer right now is finding a good substrate to mount these big prints on. I was planning on mount some prints on gatorboard and banding the edges for a nice look. No frame just all print. Not really a fine art look but a more commercial look.

Oh, and another problem I have is the canned profiles. I can't find them anywhere to softproof in PSCS.

The question is...which one of us is going to have to adopt Linda G's slogan first?

[HulaMike]

Hey! I'm already way out of wall space. In fact most of my framed objects have 'quick release' framing so I can rotate images about every three months or so.

I haven't bought into Photokit yet, just PKS sharpener. Sounds good though.

So far I'm using the age old taped hinge matting solution on 20x30 prints and below Mike but it makes me nervous. I have an idea for larger prints that involves a punched hole in the print held by a flat circular adhesive mounted "L" clip if you will that should work OK. Slim enough to work under a matte. Maybe I'll market it.

When you say you can't see the ICC's in CS do you mean in the custom print view? You have to calibrate the 130 for the paper/quality you're using first. Then they'll show up to select, at least on a PC. The beauty of the DJ series is being able to calibrate 'your' printer for the paper you're using.

[easternherp]

What is the water resistance with this printers inks?

[HulaMike]

ZERO with the swellable archival papers, better on rag based papers but you can spray them.

I was concerned about ambient humidity too but that hasn't proved to be a problem at all here in humid Hawaii after two months. You can handle them just like any other print, just don't knock a glass of water over on one.

[crabby]

Under "View>Proof Set Up>Custom" I don't have any HP profiles to choose. In the print with preview I can select 'em for output and I can see them in the printers driver. I just cant softproof. Frustrating, the colors match well but gradations in the shadow detail of course doesn't match the monitor. I did the paper calabration but I think I had better do it again. Every review I read of this printer said that HP's set up guide was the worst. Well I thought I'm relatively intellegent with lots of experience with printing how bad could it be. I studied each little picture, thought hard, and studied it some more before proceding for each of the 25 or so steps. Well the one thing they didn't have a picture for, that should be the first picture, the biggest picture, a circle with a line through it...DON'T EVEN THINK OF OPENING ANY OF THE THREE LIDS UNLESS YOU ARE EXPLICITELY TOLD TO DO SO. I had the main lid open to see the little heads doing their thing but it wouldn't work correctly. So I thought it did the calabration but maybe it didn't. What is wrong with corpotate America? They could have clearly written the 25 steps on an index card but NOOOO, they had to get fancy with their little pictures. For Pete's Sake the have a picture showing you not to try jamming the usb cable into the parallel port!
Ok I'll quit now. It's been a long day with a few beers after a long shoot.

[Roger M]

Hula Mike (and all),

Thanks for the link on the PK forums- very helpful !

I have a S2 and S3 and I'm a PK sharpener user as well. Bruce Fraser's recommendation to sharpen ONLY native pixel resolution would seem to mitigate against using Fuji's 12MP mode for large prints. Do you get better results from using 6MP over 12MP as Mr. Fraser seems to suggest ? Any thoughts? What's your workflow?

Currently, I
• shoot 12MP
• use mid size sharpen
• do whatever upsizing is neccesary @240dpi
• use creative sharpeners luminance, and edge in low levels (depends on the image)
• output sharpen @240dpi

At present I'm still using a 2200, but I'm awaiting Wilhelm's testing results on ozone affects with the HP130 on archival quality. It seems like a sweet printer, especially for the money.

I'd appreciate anyone's responses to the questions above and PK sharpener workflow suggestions for the S2/S3.

Thanks

;)

[HulaMike]

Roger, my workflow is pretty much yours. I shoot S2 RAF exclusively and that's a camera interpolated 12MP image, I consider that 'native resolution'. I convert in Fuji HU to largest size TIF @ 16 bit that equals a 69 MB TIF.

Then I:
1. open TIF in CS
2. Capture sharpen, edit, creative sharpen.
3. Archive
4. Adjust size for whatever output is required
5. Output sharpen at that resolution for the intended output source.

I wouldn't hesitate to use your largest file size with PKS from your S3. "Native Resolution" as Fraser means it is uninterpolated camera data and so your max size S2/S3 files are fine to work with PKS, both are "native" camera resolutions.....but read on! Even mild interpolation can be beneficial with respect to printing.

I am getting stunning prints from 180ppi files on the 130. These files usually have to be interpolated up slightly from 140ppi as my S2 RAFs convert to 140ppi at 23x35. I use 'Bicubic Smoother' as suggested by Fraser if one must rez up an image. I could probably send the 140ppi file to the printer output sharpened at 180 but rezzing up from 140 to 180 is so slight an adjustment I feel comfortable with that. If the file's good to begin with, the resultant print will be smooth, not pixilated at all, very pretty and photographic looking. I'm dumbfounded actually with the look of these prints sent at 180ppi. Smaller sized prints with a resolution of from 240 to 360ppi are even better but not so much that it makes a great difference as far as I can tell.

Mike,

Here's a step by step WITH words from the HP site. It is too bad the poster they included is so poor unless you're skillful at reading hieroglyphics...

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?locale=en_US&taskId=115&prodSeriesId=352387&prodTypeId=18972&objectID=c00143815

You should also go to the Neil Snape site listed above. Lots of great info on this printer with a lean towards you MAC guys and printing. That's where I learned to point color management back to application instead of pointing it to the ICC profile. Made a world of difference as this set up allows the use of CS black point compensation if you have it checked in your CS custom view. Big, Big difference!

I really don't know why you can't see the HP ICC profiles under custom view in CS. They all show up in my version on a PC, even the ones I haven't calibrated yet. Maybe you should reinstall the driver CD. There's even a newer driver online that you can download. maybe this will fix things for you.

If your calibration was successful, your test pattern print out will have a "cyan checkmark" lower right when done. If you get an "X", you have to recalibrate.

PS: I found out by accident that the HP DJ130 will print a 16bit file and so I don't convert to 8 bit for printing anymore. I really don't know if this is helpful or not, but my gut instinct says it has to be beneficial in some way. I'm sending 146MB files to the 130 at 23"x35"@180ppi.

(max image width on the 130 is 23.63", it doesn't print borderless on 24" wide stock)

[HulaMike]

Mike,

Here are two more sites dedicated to the discussion of the HP DJ130.

The HP DJ130 site:
https://h41186.www4.hp.com/forums/forum_listing.html?category_id=12&rqst_label=&pageseq=876675

The Yahoo DJ130 site:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPDesignJet_Printers/

[Roger M]

23x35 from the S2- yowza! I'll have to try some prints in that range. For high freq. detailed images, I'm not inclined to go that big with digital, but for portraits and the like it would be great to print that large.

Follow up questions:

Do you use "mid size" capture sharpen or the "high rez" setting with PK and your S2 images ?

I've heard some talk of difficulty roll feeding paper into the HP130, have you had that issue, or do you sheet feed ?

Any issues with roller marks in the paper surface ?

And, I'm a fan of Luster paper finishes typically, but I'm getting interested in matte papers as of late. The common wisdom is that the 130 is not optimized for matte printing, is that your experience as well ? Have you tried matte papers in the 130, and if so,what do you think of the results ?

Thanks
:D

[crabby]

I might be getting closer to solving the missing profiles saga. The printer is not connect to my Photoshop/color corrected workstation. I have it connected to a Powerbook as a print server in another room. I have installed the printer driver on both machines and of course did the calabraation from the laptop. The profiles show up on the laptop in all three areas, the Custom Proof Setup, the Print with Preview, and in the printer driver. But they're nowhere to be found on the hard drive. They must either be invisible files, named some funky name and put in some illogical place, or embedded in the driver that somehow photoshop can see. But on my workstation they don't show up in the custom proof setup. So perhaps I need to run the maintanance program and calabrate the printer from my workstation.

As for PK Sharpening, I always develop my files for 12mp and sharpen for Medium Res. and upres to 240 ppi for output to the HP.
Mike, have you tried checking the finest detail box under the color tab I think. It takes a really long time to print but it does increase the detail. And you aren't going to get any better quaility with 16 bit files just bigger files through the pipeline. That being said I've been doing the same thing with epsons for a long time just because I'm to lazy to add another step before printing.

Roger-I'm a glossy/luster kinda guy too. Matte paper is for b&w and I don't do much b&w. I alway shoot in color and convert to b&w later and I usually wind up liking the color version better, unless the shot is pretty much monochromatic anyway.
I haven't tried the roll paper yet, but I will as soon as I am out of cut sheets.

[HulaMike]

Roger,

Mike's take is the same as mine. I select Mid rez for capture sharpening. I first used high as the PKS PDF was a bit vague but later on I read on the PKS chat list that Fraser recommends mid rez capture for 6MP DSLRs.

I do use 24" rolls but I cut sheet stock from them and manually feed through the front feeder. Larger prints (23x35) show no roller marks. I have heard that if you do use the rear roll feed method that the pressure of the rollers can leave a slight indent on the stock overnight but that would only be on a few inches of stock that was left in the printer. Also, if you want to print other papers or sizes you have to manually remove the roll and so I just decided to cut large sheets for now and manually feed everything from the front. I have only had one misfeed that ejected the paper. All the fuss you read about this on other forums is baloney and probably posted by first time users of any printer other than their office lasar. The only trick is to cut the paper square and feed it tight against the stop. A no brainer actually.

If you both like luster papers you should like the PP photo satin which is a lovely photographic paper. I use it almost exclusively for the work I do.

Mike I do have my PP Satin Photo calibration set for "max detail" but don't think I've noticed a "max" tab on the color page on a PC. I think that's a gift for Mac users that escaped the PC driver config.

And thanks Mike for the info on sending 16 bit files.

[HulaMike]

I know this isn't a particularly good way to evaluate printed output but I wanted to try to show you a bit of the true photographic quality this printer offers. It definitely doesn't look like an inkjet to me.

These were quick snapshots taken under florescent lighting with an open window to the right. DON'T judge color here, its much nicer than shown. Just look at smoothness and detail.

The top print image area is 20"x30" (barge) the lower 23"x35" (Candid portrait).

The Candid portrait was printed from an S2 file that scaled to 180ppi at printed size. I think you can see enough detail here to sense the smoothness in tonality of the blue sky, the utter lack of pixelization and the smooth detail in her face and blanket. I also attribute some of this to using PK sharpener which prepares a file for print better than using CS USM or other global sharpening technique.

FWIW.

PS: You can also get a sense of scale on the printer itself here. Mine sits nicely on a cheapie 24"x48" card table. Its just an overgrown desk top printer by design......

[crabby]

Mike,

the Maximum detail is not a tab but a small box you can check. Unchecked is the default! It's in the third tab, I think it is called color under the paper settings. It also has settings for ink coverage and dry times. If your prints aren't taking like a half an hour to print then you don't have it checked.

[HulaMike]

WOW! Thanks Mike! I had printing set for "normal' based on something I read on the Snape site (he suggested that unless printing text and vector graphics "best" wasn't required). Having "normal" selected greys out the "max detail" function. My prints were printing in 18 minutes and coming out more or less dry. They weren't printing at 2400x2400.

Shows to go ya! I guess I'm in for another big surprise then as I'm very happy with what I've been getting so far. What are you setting for ink volume and dry time?

Thanks so much!!!!!!!

:righton:

[crabby]

I don't have the time or energy or resources to tweek every little setting to see what's better or worse. My prints come out dry and it already seems to be a miser with the inks, so I leave them both at the default.
The difference in quality isn't stark, just ever so slightly more contrasty and yet smooth.

[Roger M]

Thanks Crabby and Hula Mike,

Truly impressive stuff, I'm blown away at the print quality- and certainly the size ! If it looks that good on the web, in person must be a sight to behold.

Crabby, does the 130 play well with Macs ?

thanks again !

[HulaMike]

The difference in quality isn't stark, just ever so slightly more contrasty and yet smooth.

That explains Neil Snapes advice then, prints like mine not set to 'Max" are very good but selecting max for certain images gives it another subtle push up the quality ladder. Can't wait to try it. I may go through ink a bit faster now but like you said this printer really is a miser. So far I've gone through two 24"x50' rolls of satin photo and the ink monitor is just down one click on 4 colors only. (the monitor indicates 4 levels for those who might be interested) I think I'll be able to print around 400 square feet on one set of carts.

[crabby]

Roger,
Well, as you have read I'm having a bit of a problem with the profiles. But other then that it runs great. Another problem Mac users have mentioned is that you need to have Microsoft Internet Exploder as your default browser to run the printer utility, but it runs fine with safari for me.

[HulaMike]

Mike,

I ran several files at the max setting and there was a noticeable added punch but I honestly liked one file printed as normal better. So I guess its like always, file by file and a little experimenting. It took a full hour to print a 24x36 at max setting. wow. Takes about 20 minutes at the default setting. Good to know I have it though! Thanks again Bruddah.

[HulaMike]

Neil Snape has mentioned on another board that HP is testing and will soon release additional ICCs for various fine art papers commonly used with Epsons. He made it sound emminant. Woo hoo! More joy.

[crabby]

Mike,
I thought I'd move our continuing discussion on the HP130 back over here instead of hijacking your very valid 8 bit v. 16 bit thread.

The prints I do for myself on this printer are better then I expected, and I had very high expectations. I am concidering returning it though mainly because of a timing issue. With the announcement of the new line of epsons and the possibility of archival matte choices for the HP on the horizon and the potential of a new client for me needing his painings copied and printed I have a three way tug of war. I am left to speculate on which of these scenarios will come true if any. My experience tells me that epson will have a new and improved printer that will do an excellent job on the matte paper of my choice and it may be as good as the HP on gloss (my personal preference). But when can I get my hands on one. I have no experience with HP's track record. I'm left trying to figure out what it would take to come up with an archival fine art matte paper. New ink? Special swellable coating? Who knows? I do know that new profiles for my favorite photo rag paper isn't going to do anything for longevity. I need to know if coating the prints with PrintShield will solve the issue without ruining the look and feel of the paper. All the tests I've read with this spray are with epson ink. Lastly, experience tells me not to bank on a new client until they are a client. So while I am trying to figure out a way to profitably meet the needs of a new business avenue I don't want to dive in head first into an empty pool.

A smaller issue I have with HP as I mentioned before is their somewhat quarky way of doing things in some instances. I'm still quit put off by their handling of their own ICC profiles. Mike, can you point to a folder on you HD that contains HP's canned profiles. They should be in the same folder as your other profiles right? Apparently, for the Mac at least, they are embedded somewhere or hidden all together. Why the secrecy? Why can't you go to hp's web site and download them like you can with epson? You can download profiles if you bought their $300 RIP but not for their included driver. I think what happens to get the profiles installed you have to have your printer and computer connected when installing the driver. Not a big deal for a one computer, one printer setup but when you have a print server setup it doesn't work. If this is the way it works, or the way it works on a Mac this is very narrow thinking on their part. Not good. This past month was more a test of the company. I was very happy with the very first print. Now I need to ascertain whether the company will grow this product into a more versitile machine. Will they be helpful when problems arise? So far they haven't. many questions on their own forum don't even get a response. Not good. Will this printer be supported into the future. All that being said, so far they're not doing any less then other companies for the most part. Some have better online support, some have better phone support. All printers as all componies have their own idiosyncrasies the we have to learn,accept and work with. I've certainly had my problems with epsons. It's just the era of technology we live in today.
The honeymoon is over. I wish I had more time to decide. When I first got the printer I thought somebody must have turned on the holy grail beacon but instead I just got a little spankin'. I can't loose sight of the fact that this is a great printer for the money!

[easternherp]

Mike,

The profiles might be in the drivers package. I know that this is where epson puts theirs.
Library/Printers/EPSON/SP2100.plugin This is the package where my profiles are situated for the 2100 epson.

[HulaMike]

Mike, All the HP printer profiles show alongside all other printer profiles on a PC under CS custom view and in the print set up. I tried searching a location in Windoze Explorer but couldn't find the exact address on the tree. After I loaded the HP driver it copied all these to the same directory as all my other profiles automatically. HP has made a huge mistake if they're doing things so cryptically for Mac users.

Have you tried emailing Neil Snape? He's a Mac user and paid HP DJ130 spokesman in Europe, but very knowledgeable and approachable. Email him and ask how he has his set up and where those files are. But it honestly looks like the HP might not be a good fit for your needs what with your media requirements and print server problems. The DJ130 is a terrific printer but its not the only printer to offer large format archival printing.

Re the cost, it really doesn't matter Mike if you're printing commercially, its a write off. And a few LF print sales pays for the printer itself.

Sorry you've had such a bummer of an experience. I understand about dealing with HP customer service, its the pits. I put up with that because this printer works for my needs and costs half the Epson 7600.

Whatever you decide remember, its only money and a business write off anyway. If you have to spend a bit more to get where you need to be, so be it! I wish I had a 7600 right alongside the 130 if the truth be known but for now the HP is getting me where I need to be.

Hula on Brudda!

:cheers:

[crabby]

Thanks Andrew, I did check the library but didn't see anything that resembled a profile. I actually did a search across my entire system hard drive and nothing with the two letters "HP" resembled a profile.
Mike, I can see the profiles in photoshop on my laptop (print server) but they don't show up on my calabrated workstation. Which is where I do my photoshop work. I guess HP's way of thinking is to lug your 50 lbs printer around to each computer, plug it in and then install the software. I'm squinting really hard to read between the lines on how this company operates. That clue is like a big wack on the back of the head. Their solution is to buy a $300 network card and run a cable if you don't like sitting right next to your printer. All just to be able to softproof in photoshop on a different machine. Once again another piece of equipment designed by engineers with little real world operation experience.
I don' mean to pick on HP per se' Epson isn't any better but I think epson has a slightly better understanding on the workflow of an artist as apposed to the audio/visual dept of a corporation which seems to be their niche. They're trying to make inroads to the former, they just need to try a little harder and to listen and respond.

I'll add more later if you can take any more. But I've gotta run, it's election day again.

[HulaMike]

Mine came with a 10 foot USB cable Mike. Theoretically it could sit in the next room. Couldn't you just buy a longer cable, load the profiles on your design station and bypass the server? Back to analogue I guess, hot wire whichever computer you're using to send files??? Sounds like you're more po'd over not being able to network this thing than its print capability, which is a valid concern I guess. Personally, I'd drill a hole in the wall between rooms and just feed the cable through, with nice dress plates on both sides you understand. :rolleyes:

Did you read this reply from Neil Snape on the HP DJ site/networking? Looks like its pretty straight forward.

https://h41186.www4.hp.com/forums/tree_display.html?forum_id=994&posting_id=47666&pageseq=876675

[easternherp]

Mike,

When you do a search using the find function it doesn't look into the library of the system and also inside packages. Have you searched the laptop (server) for the profiles. They may not be labelled up as HP etc.

[crabby]

Guys, I don't mean to sound "PO"ed. This printer gets 9 stars in my book. It makes exceptionally beautiful prints. Albeit on limited paper types but they happen to be the types I prefer. You asked what little quarks bothered me and I went I went off on a tiraid that kinda turned into a comentary on the state of tech corporations in my opinion. Let me list all the pluses this printer has.
1. Outstanding prints on gloss and semigloss. That's at least 8.5 out of 10 stars
2. Much more conservative ink usage=lower cost to operate
3. Lower initial investment. #3+#2=Best bang for the buck
4. Smaller size then the epson 4000
5. I like the look and feel of the paper

Quarks:
1. The ICC Profile thing. Yes I know I've gone on and on about this and I'm going to go on a little more. You're probably really gonna wanna slap me when I say that it doesn't affect me a whole lot since I have created my own custom profile for the paper I use. But that is no excuse on their part. I would like to try some of their other papers with out going through the trouble and waste of custom profiling just to get an idea what will be clipped before I print. I am also more inclined to believe that this is not a boneheaded decision or oversight on their part but it is connected to their calabration process which perhaps tweaks the profile not the firmware to maintain consistency. If that is the case, that screws everybody that goes through the time and expense of obtaining a custom profile. It may also lead to lower standards in QC of their consumables if it can just (maybe) be corrected by calabrating. Like I say I'm trying very hard to read between the lines of their thought process. Is it innovation or is it a shortcut.
2. Paper orientation vs. image orientation. I'm still trying to figure out the intricacies. As close as I can figure, it alway assumes that the paper you are feeding it is in landscape orientation, that is, it is wider then it is long. Unless it is longer then it is wide and the width equals 24". Huh, or maybe I got that backwards except the last part. The point is I have to think hard about what it's thinking. Sooner or later I'l catch on but right now I'm used to feeding the print vertically and if the image is horizontal just hit the landscape (flip 90d) button and you will get what you are expecting. Not the HP way. I had a client in last week. After oohing and aahing over some of my prints she whipped out a file she wanted printed 14"x20" horizontal. Piece of cake. I feed a sheet of 18x24 horizontally and hit print. The "image is to large for the paper" box popped up. It took me three tries to get the file rotation and the paper orientation right. HP touts this as a feature and I don't disagree, I can't tell you how much time I have spent cleaning ink off the carriages of epson printers. I could do with out looking like an idiot infront of a client though. Like I say, I'll get the hang of it sooner or later.


Other things that aren't really nagatives or quarks but would make me happier:
1. I would love to have borderless printing.
2. I wish they didn't put the HP logo on the back of their paper.


Mike- The wireless network is working great for me although I'm kicking myself for not running a cat6 cable when I was redoing my office. I would need about 50' and I don't think they make a usb cable that long.

Right now my plan is to keep the HP, buy the epson 7800 when it comes out if i need to, and then sell one or the other, lovingly used.

[HulaMike]

Hi Mike, just a few thoughts.

Paper orientation:
I always load paper through the front manual feeder, even my 24x36 as I don't have the rear roll feeder. On any size print from 8x10 to 24x36 I ALWAYS load the paper vertically into the printer; IE: short side into the printer. I then adjust the print driver for portrait or landscape, whichever orientation is correct, and it always prints correctly. It seems that the DJ wants the width dimension inserted into the printer, not the length to agree with the print driver choices.

Profiling:

I believe the custom paper scan is held in the printer's firmware Mike, calibrations for a paper do NOT tweak the ICC Printer Profile. I noticed after a recent crash and system rebuild that my DJ130 retained my custom calibration for PP satin Photo paper after the rebuild and reload of drivers, etc. onto a completely virgin HD. This is further borne out in a conversation I had with Neil Snape re his creating a custom profile for my DJ 130. The first step in his process requires a new calibration for the paper to be profiled then you print out his test targets for profiling.

Borderless would be nice or maybe a 25" wide printer so you could print a true 24x36 image, that would be nice. But for all the positive reasons you listed above, I love this printer.

[crabby]

Mike, I think your right about the paper orientation thing. I just churned out a beautiful 18x24 from a drum scanned hassy trans. Freakin gorgeous.
Maybe HP didn't bother telling us about the peculiars of paper orientation because they haven't figured out how to draw a picture of it yet.

[HulaMike]

.................. :rofl:

[photoworks]

OK MIKE, YOU CONVIECED ME!!! .....and I ordered DJ130 today :)
I'll get it on Wednesday, till then just waiting ;)

Billy

[crabby]

Congradulations, you'll be amazed with the prints. 2 day delivery ain't too shabby either. Although I wouldn't hold my breath.

[HulaMike]

Be preparted to be amazed.

[photoworks]

Thanks both Mikes :)
Well the price was up to 1,867 Euros (VAT included) but papers and inks look cheap to me.
Yes yes I'm holding my breath to be amazed....and to impress the others ;)

Billy

[HulaMike]

I don't know if this applies to Mike, he's more experienced than me; but I wasn't getting the color or quality I expected right out of the box. My first DJ130 prints weren't as good as what I was getting with an old Epson 1280.

The reason is that there's a fundamental rethinking on how to direct the image in printer set up and color management from what I was used to with Epson. I called HP tech and researched the HP and Neil Snape sites for guidance. If you set yours up as Neil suggests you'll be blown away with the print quality. I believe I posted the link above.

[photoworks]

I don't know if this applies to Mike, he's more experienced than me; but I wasn't getting the color or quality I expected right out of the box. My first DJ130 prints weren't as good as what I was getting with an old Epson 1280.

The reason is that there's a fundamental rethinking on how to direct the image in printer set up and color management from what I was used to with Epson. I called HP tech and researched the HP and Neil Snape sites for guidance. If you set yours up as Neil suggests you'll be blown away with the print quality. I believe I posted the link above.


It applies to both, Crabby and Hula (so many Mikes, it applies to my brother too :lol: :lol: )
Ok Hula I'll look to Snape's site for it, maybe I'll need your help if I mess with it..if you don't bother of course.

Thanks

Billy

[HulaMike]

Not at all. His set up is geared for Mac but the essentials apply to PCs.

The main difference was that I had been pointing color management towards the ICC with Epson. Snape's site suggested three alternatives that better involve using Adobe's strong 'black point compensation' in the mix. Basically you set your custom view to include the ICC you're using in CS, then in 'print with preview' you set your source for 'Document' and your print space as your printer profile (the same as selected in custom view. It should appear automatically) The final step was to choose 'Color Matching Method: manage by application'. This last setting was a major change for me.

I believe MAC users have several other options that Neil liked better actually with "manage by application" as his last recomendation, but I didn't have those choices with a PC and so use manage by ap. So far the above offers incredible print quality.

HP has basically the same tutorial online with a few minor differences. For example, HP says to always use Perceptual for intent which is hogwash as Relative Colormetric is often the better choice. I've even used saturation intent on some nearly B&W lava flow shots and that produced a strange but wonderful effect.

[photoworks]

Thanks Mike :righton: , I'm waiting THE tomorrow.

Billy

[photoworks]

I GOT IT :) , had it set up, but print nothing yet :mad: bad people didn't let me enjoy it :soapbox: , I had to shoot some stuff for a hotel today.
I'll "play" with it later...ok I suppose

Billy

[photoworks]

Hands down, this thing rocks!!! Fantastic quality, very close to what I see on my monitor. No banding, no grain :righton:

Billy

[HulaMike]

Congrats Billy. Now wait till you print out your first 24x36! The 130 is the most photographic inkjet I've ever seen or used.

[photoworks]

Thanks Mike, only 13X19 for the time being, I'm waiting for bigger rolls on Friday.
Impossible to distinguish the dots, there isn't any! And the color is as natural as it has to be. I had to see this dimensionality and tonality since my Cibachrome days.
I printed a landscape and two portaits, now feel as happy as I was when I bought the S2.

BTW have you noticed a strange smell -like pop corn- coming from the inks? :lol:

Billy

[HulaMike]

Glycol. Its why the DJ never clogs. I'm an old signman who spent 25 years with my hands in lacquer thinner, paint and inks every day. I can't really smell my DJ but others report they do. Its not dangerous.

What paper are you printing?

[photoworks]

Glycol. Its why the DJ never clogs. I'm an old signman who spent 25 years with my hands in lacquer thinner, paint and inks every day. I can't really smell my DJ but others report they do. Its not dangerous.

What paper are you printing?

I've only used HP Premium Plus Photo and Proofing Gloss for the time but I'm interested of Satin and Matte also. I'll give them a try this weekend.

Billy

[HulaMike]

Please post all your paper experiments, how you calibrated them, etc. So far I'm only using the premium plus photo satin and would appreciate any info you have regarding other papers Villy.

Good luck.

[photoworks]

Ok Mike, sure I'll do :righton:
The Gloss paper is just fantastic, I didn't have the time for a deeper experimentation, I'll do my tests and let you know ;)

Billy

[HulaMike]

Still crazy about this printer after three months now. I'm in the midst of printing 500 images for an art festival and seeing all these beautiful prints come off the line is a very satisfying experience.

I already knew the 130 was economical to operate and now HP has added a page showing per print costs for the 30/90/130 that match my calculations. They've even taken print head use/replacement costs into consideration. You'll NEVER see Epson do that I can assure you. If you're interested, here's the link:

http://h41186.www4.hp.com/Data/costperprint/PDF_cost_per_copy_US_050303_lowres.pdf?pageseq=839 3

[photoworks]

Interesting page Mike, now I'm twice as happy since I see the cost p/p.
I buy the Premium Plus Photo & Proofing Gloss 24'X50 ft roll for 65 Euros here which is about $80 VAT included.
Just got my rolls-Gloss & Satin-, I'm gonna print some stuff tomorrow :)

Billy

[Marcel F]

Mike ,
thanks for your comments .. i will place my order ( HP130) shortly .

Marcel

[HulaMike]

Marcel,

I know I come off here as somewhat imature and as a paid spokesman for HP, but I can assure you that this printer is better than any other inkjet I've ever used or seen. You won't be disappointed.

[photoworks]

I'll add to this,I was never a fun of inkjets and used to print my photos in professional labs. Now I gave up, this printer is fantastic accurate. Areas with constant color like blue skies come out without grain, you can't see the dots, while shadow areas are clear with absolutely no noise.
Mike is right you have to print a really big picture (24X36' or 61X91cm) to see the printer's abilities.
And something more: the black is black :righton:

Billy

[Serge]

Well I missed all the initial excitement, but after reading this thread, have now caught the excitement bug! Lack of borderless printing is a surprising omission, that's what the Canon can give me in up to A3+ size.
I'm even excited for you guys who already have it :beerchug:
Now I have to settle down before I make my final decision, after I have a chance to play with the Canon i9950, they sound like different strokes for different folks though, great wealth of valueable info here :righton:

[HulaMike]

Serge, do yourself a favor and order two free DJ130 prints from HP here:

https://h41186.www4.hp.com/printbig/printbig30.html?pageseq=244446

I read a tedious explanation why HP didn't opt for borderless printing written by Neil Snape. In a nutshell it has to do with how the printer needs to shut down its normal spray pattern as it gets close to the edge thereby degrading image quality on the edge.......either that or I've fallen prey once again to marketing hype. :rolleyes: Actually my only beef about this printer is that I wish it were designed to be a 25" wide printer so I could print exactly 24"x36". Right now max width is 23.62".

Really though, get the free prints before you buy anything.

[Serge]

Sounds like good advice to me Mike, :cheers:

[Marcel F]

Mike , Billy Thanks .... I have the DJ130 up and running .
oustanding results , wide gamut , more detail in shadow ( compared with Epson 7500) .
Calibration , a dream !!!
Firmware update , using utility is a dream too. ( WEB based utility)

I had difficulties in making the System maintenance work on my MAC , it took me a couple of hours .. but now , it works great , the DJ in on my network , accessible by all my computers.
Ink , what a smell !!!

Thanks again ..

Marcel