D2x shots, for what it's worth... [Archive]

High ISO!

March 4th, 2005, 07:51 PM

I FINALLY got my new toy!

I have only had it a few hours. I have a couple shots for those who would like to see. They aren't anything to write home about, just a couple quick flash shots.

The dog (ISO!) was shot at ISO 400, 28-70 2.8, flash was the SB80 DX (my 800 is it's way) I bounced it off the ceiling. The shot is not cropped or tweeked at all, just straight out of the box.

The parrot (Oscar) was shot at 800 ISO, same lens, same flash, although some flash got cut off shooting into the cage. This is a 100% crop, that was tweeked just a tad.

Tomorrow I will *try* it at an agility trial, indoors at a pretty dark building....We'll see how bad the noise at high ISO really is then! No flash either. I'll be lucky to get anything!

Alissa

High ISO!

March 4th, 2005, 07:55 PM

I am really IMPRESSED with the sharpness! It completely blows away my S2, D70 & of course the old tired S1. I can't wait to get it outside now!

I also have some camera adjustments to work on too, but I am really happy with my early captures so far!
Alissa

Melody

March 4th, 2005, 08:00 PM

Hey Alissa,

Congratulations!! Odd you mentioned sharpness I found that mine is not nearly as sharp as my D2h or Canon 1dm2

Melody

Bruce

March 4th, 2005, 08:20 PM

Beautiful images.
What a cute dog by the way.
I must say that such quality should be most satisfactory to anyone.
I find the new cameras to be real marvels of technology.
Very nice. Enjoy your new camera.
Bruce

HulaMike

March 4th, 2005, 08:21 PM

they sure look good on this end Alissa. Congrats!

High ISO!

March 4th, 2005, 08:23 PM

Thanks Bruce,
That's my star agility dog :D , High ISO!, who is VERY tired of posing for photos these days! Not the best shot of her, but she sits still, and doesn't turn her head or run away, when I put that black box to my face!

Thanks Mike! Time will tell, if it will be as good as it seems to be!
Alissa

Melody

March 4th, 2005, 09:29 PM

Alissa and I just got off the phone, we both have had had lengthy conversations before :lol:

Our focus settings are exactly the same, however her's had +2 sharpening set in the camera and I had none so I will try the change tomorrow. Thanks Alissa!

Melody

Auminer

March 4th, 2005, 11:41 PM

Finally a couple of shots from the D2x! Thanks for posting these Alissa...first thing I noticed is NO jaggies, and of course the sharpness is outstanding. Better than the S2 on noise too.

Tomorrow I will *try* it at an agility trial, indoors at a pretty dark building... Hanging on your every shot on this one...ISO and action shots!!! Thats what I'm needing too, we value your judgement.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but does the D2x have the capability of AF for individual shots at 8 fps???? I can't see where it is possible to focus that fast even with the added voltage, but then I didn't expect it to shoot that fast either. A good test would be for a dog coming right at you (or away) verses moving across. Your trial should have an answer to this, eh? :)

Thanks for posting,
Dave

Igor

March 5th, 2005, 12:12 AM

Stunning shots Alissa! Need to sell a few of my lenses and buy myself this new toy :) Post more, and 1:1 crops too, please !!!

Carlton

March 5th, 2005, 02:50 AM

Alissa,

These look really good. The one thing that suprises me is the short DOF using flash. I don't know what f-stop you used, but I'm guessing around 5.6? I wonder how this is going to work out as a studio camera when DOF is needed for family groups? Thanks for sharing your results.

Melody,

Please let us know if the 2+ makes the difference. Hope you didn't get an OOF camera!

Jacqui Jay

March 5th, 2005, 03:02 AM

Alissa, these look tremendous – they've made me really impatient for mine to arrive. I'm way down the list and I tried to 'steal' someone else's camera which had just arrived but they wouldn't give it to me, said I had to wait my turn. Meanies! Can't wait to see your pictures from the trials.

fujifilmnut

March 5th, 2005, 05:37 AM

HISO,

Thank you for the shots! No qustion it is very shap especially out of the camera. What is even more impressive is the color. Beautiful.

RacerX

March 5th, 2005, 01:37 PM

Thanks first of all for posting some great non-actions shots that just look awesome! :righton: From what I've readed so far, as I'm waiting for mine to arrive, is that this camera is geared for action photos. So your test this weekend between Melody and yourself will be the true test as far as I see it.
I hope they come out as good as advertised by Nikon for action. I usally shot sports for a local high school football here, so . . . . . I really can't wait to see your shots.

Thanks again!

High ISO!

March 5th, 2005, 04:41 PM

Thanks to everyone, for your thoughts on my image from the D2x.

I just got in from the agility trial.....It is VERY VERY dark in there, especially since they have now painted the walls tan & brown! I shot in there last month, with their new color scheme & my D70....What a nighmare!

Anyway,
The shots from today look pretty grotesque right now BROWN (suprise!). I will try to salvage a few to show you all how H1(1600ISO) looks. I can also find something from the trial in the same building with the D70 too, so you can compare. The images are ALWAYS underexposed, so it REALLY brings out the noise. I'm thinking of possibly getting the 85 1.4 to shoot in there. I will be back there next week too, YEESH!

Amazing as it seems to me, I am astonished that I got orders from just about EVERY person who ran a dog! I was telling them NOT to get the photos, but they didn't care how bad they were exposure wise. OK they were novice dogs, many who were out for the very first time....Including my HyperZoom, who lived up to her name entirely! :D She had a BLAST flying around aimlessly!!!

Images to come later....

Alissa

High ISO!

March 5th, 2005, 06:33 PM

Ok These are really pretty embarrassing to show to the world, but you asked, so here I go. :tupon:

The bar jump shot of the big dog was shot early in the day...70-200VR ISO 1600 1/250 f 2.8. I tweeked the shot a bit, I had to, it was completely BROWN when I started out.

The second shot (little dog jumping through the tire) is straight out of the box, with the exception of sizing to post here. I changed my SS to 1/125 by this time. The smaller dogs generally don't move as fast as the larger ones, so I was able to get away with a bit less speed, still 2.8 and obviously WAY underexposed!

I hope I can figure out how to shoot in that building by next weekend! teh bronw walls & sodium vapor lighting really don't help at all! Anyone know the temp of sodium vapor lights?

I have a LOT of learning and experimenting to do. I played some with the Kelvin adjustments, but it was too dark in the building to really use it. It was difficult to keep real good track of exactly what I was doing, since the dogs were pushing through pretty quickly.

I did have a bit of getting used to the faster shutter! Early in the day I was shooting way early, catching the dogs on take off, not over the jumps. Normally, I have a pretty good rate of I'd say about 95-98%, I was probably about 75% this morning. The camera is much louder than the D70, many dogs noticed the sound of my camera triggering. Some looked over, others twitched their ears over. A couple weeks ago I had to pull l the N90s out of retirement for a job. I was amazed at how differently & more responsive the shutter release was. Well, let me tell you, the shutter release on the D2x is even FASTER than my old N90s!

Tomorrow is supposed to be in the 50s, so maybe I will try to get outside & play with the camera in natural light. I *hope* we get some sun too!

Melody, how'd your shooting go today???

Can someone tell me if the Nikor 85 1.4 might help shooting in this place? I have been shooting there once or twice a month since November, so I think I can invest in some nice glass for that place.

Alissa

High ISO!

March 5th, 2005, 06:34 PM

Oooopppsss the bar jump is REALLY a CHUTE! I forgot what I had saved...sorry!
Alissa

HulaMike

March 5th, 2005, 07:11 PM

Alissa, Looks like a white balancce issue is all and under that type of lighting, no wonder. Have you ever shot grey card or expodisk at these events? I've read D2x supposedly has great auto wb but something's happening here. Just a thought.

lightwrangler

March 5th, 2005, 07:19 PM

High Pressure Sodium Vapor Lamps can vary in colour temperature from 1800k to 2700k. In other words, very deficient in blue and overwhelmingly orange. Most sensors (and films) crave light that is mostly balanced and certainly aren't made to deal with this extreme lack of blue. If you are thinking filtration, forget it. Your filter pack would be so dense that your effective ISO would be too low to shoot. The way movie companies beat this is by filtering the lamps themselves (converting to tungsten balance) by adding an almost cyan filter. This makes the sodium vapor lamps output the same colour temp as tungsten (or close to it). It's really for looks only, because they add enough tungsten to light the scene. But none of that really helps you.

My advice is to use flash. Ideally the best approach would be to mount strobes over the ring, but this is complicated and costly. So get the biggest and brightest handle mount you can find, cross your fingers and hope for the best. What you have now you can't use. I don't think changing the camera system will make much difference. So in this regard, at least you can't blame the camera.

High ISO!

March 5th, 2005, 07:25 PM

Hi Mike,
I have not used either expo disc or a grey card. I have a grey card around here somewhere, I tried looking for it a month or two ago, with no luck.

Most of the shots WERE on Auto white balance! I wish I was able to shoot RAW today, but I was short on card space, and wasn't sure if my computer would get to the trial, so I could shoot that way. I know each light is a different color, which doesn't help either! Some are nice and natural, some orange, some magenta etc. It's gotten even worse since they painted those walls brown. Maybe I should make them paint them white again! :lol:

I tried playing with kelvin (temp) settings today, as well as different balances like tungsten, flourescent, and I think something else, sorry I can't remember. But I ended up back on Auto.

I was just going through my shots in that building from last month on the D70. They look great compared to the ones I got today. I did shoot them RAW last time. I don't like Nikon Capture. I have gotten really comfortable with CS CR. CR can't convert D2x RAW files yet, so I'm learning the Nikon converter now.

Alissa

High ISO!

March 5th, 2005, 07:33 PM

My advice is to use flash. Ideally the best approach would be to mount strobes over the ring, but this is complicated and costly. So get the biggest and brightest handle mount you can find, cross your fingers and hope for the best. What you have now you can't use. I don't think changing the camera system will make much difference. So in this regard, at least you can't blame the camera.

Thanks for ALL that very usefull info! I have a problem in that I am NOT ALLOWED to use a flash, for various reasons. I was thinking of bringing my White Lightnings 2 1200s & a 600, and somehow bouncing them off something, somewhere to get extra light next weekend when I am there. The place is small, and usually there are lots of people and dogs milling around in small isles. I'm not sure I could use light stands, so I don't know if it's possible to use my lights.

I can't wait for OUTDOOR agility trials to start up again!

THANKS again to you and Mike for helping me figure this out. I'm sure I will be in love with my D2x once I am outside again, and also more comfortable with ALL the controls in the menues.

Alissa

lightwrangler

March 5th, 2005, 07:47 PM

I had a look at my old notes from my film days. Here's a few of the filter packs I used to handle colour shifts caused by mecury vapor lamps. I used it as well for sodium - but it wasn't as effective as I recall. Frankly I don't believe that it is the right way to do this but in case you were interested and can identify the lamps, this may help.

Bulb type....................................Filter

colour improved mercury...............20C + 30M + 1.3 stops
white mercury..............................60M + 30Y + 1.6 stops
Deluxe White mercury....................40M + .6 stops
Multi Vapor (GE)...........................30M + 20Y + 1 stop
Lucalox (GE) ................................90C + 70M + 3 stops

(unfortunately the my notes have the Lucalox circled with a note "sodium vapor?" beside it - I take that to mean that I found this to work the best)

I think that using a gray card or a white paper to wb on is a good start to let the camera do the job for you. If it doesn't work then you could try a slight blue filter on the lens (to fool the camera) and then go for a wb. Yes it will be wrong but you'll fix that later in PS. Shoot a colour checker for reference.

lightwrangler

March 5th, 2005, 07:56 PM

Thanks for ALL that very usefull info! I have a problem in that I am NOT ALLOWED to use a flash, for various reasons. I was thinking of bringing my White Lightnings 2 1200s & a 600, and somehow bouncing them off something, somewhere to get extra light next weekend when I am there. The place is small, and usually there are lots of people and dogs milling around in small isles. I'm not sure I could use light stands, so I don't know if it's possible to use my lights.

You will need a lot of power to do this and most likely the venue won't let you put up stands. In most places strobes are just hung from the rafters or posts. You'll also need to trigger with radio slaves otherwise flashes from other cameras will also fire them. (yes I know that people aren't allowed to use flash, but aren't there always people who use their point and shoot cameras anyway?) And remember the further away the strobes are the slower they recycle and the more power you need. How big is the arena area that you want to light?

High ISO!

March 5th, 2005, 07:57 PM

Although useful, and very kind of you to get this info out. I don't think it would work, in this place, since I'm already shooting wide open, 1/125 at 1600 ISO and trying to stop action. I can't afford to loose any more light through my lens, since I have already pushed the camera and lens past it's max point. I can try and compensate in PS for any CC I need, which is what I have been doing.

It's weird, because a few months ago, I was getting reasonable images, and now they look like crap. Either the lights are loosing power or I am not set up right in this camera, which is VERY possible, since I have only had it barely 24hrs, and haven't had a lot of time to read the manual and really get to know everything the camera offers. :troutsmac

Thanks again!
alissa

I had a look at my old notes from my film days. Here's a few of the filter packs I used to handle colour shifts caused by mecury vapor lamps. I used it as well for sodium - but it wasn't as effective as I recall. Frankly I don't believe that it is the right way to do this but in case you were interested and can identify the lamps, this may help.

Bulb type....................................Filter

colour improved mercury...............20C + 30M + 1.3 stops
white mercury..............................60M + 30Y + 1.6 stops
Deluxe White mercury....................40M + .6 stops
Multi Vapor (GE)...........................30M + 20Y + 1 stop
Lucalox (GE) ................................90C + 70M + 3 stops

(unfortunately the my notes have the Lucalox circled with a note "sodium vapor?" beside it - I take that to mean that I found this to work the best)

I think that using a gray card or a white paper to wb on is a good start to let the camera do the job for you. If it doesn't work then you could try a slight blue filter on the lens (to fool the camera) and then go for a wb. Yes it will be wrong but you'll fix that later in PS. Shoot a colour checker for reference.

High ISO!

March 5th, 2005, 08:13 PM

The area is about 50'x50', the ceilings are about 20' I think. It's in a warehouse type building. I know the club would NEVER permit me to go climbing around in the ceiling to put my lights up. I just have to deal with what's available.

As for triggering the lights, I can put a flash on my camera & point the head up or behind me (if there is no one there) to trigger the lights. I would only put the lights over a certain spot on the course (which changes from level to level, class to class). I would only shoot whatever is under the lights, so recycle should not be an issue, if I could get the lights over the course. I think that people would complain though, they complain about EVERYTHING!

I'm not worreid about the additional lighting. I warn everyone the photos aren't great, grainy, and not real sharp, but they still want them. If they want to give me thier hard earned money for nasty shots & warned them about, I'm learning to be sort of OK with it. I will continue to make them better if I can, I'm NOT giving up! Always striving to get the best shots in the conditions I'm presented with. I hope Photoshop gets a CR conversion for this camera very SOON!

Alissa

You will need a lot of power to do this and most likely the venue won't let you put up stands. In most places strobes are just hung from the rafters or posts. You'll also need to trigger with radio slaves otherwise flashes from other cameras will also fire them. (yes I know that people aren't allowed to use flash, but aren't there always people who use their point and shoot cameras anyway?) And remember the farther away the strobes are the slower they recycle and the more power you need. How big is the arena area that you want to light?

Melody

March 5th, 2005, 08:17 PM

Melody, how'd your shooting go today???

Alissa

Hey Alissa,

Much better! Changing to the in camera sharpening helped, I didn't have much sun at this time it was overcast however not too bad, here's one of the pics http://fmount.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11321
I'd say we are pretty darn close now for outside shots :) Thank you!!!

Melody

Sleeping Bear

March 5th, 2005, 08:33 PM

.......The second shot (little dog jumping through the tire) is straight out of the box, with the exception of sizing to post here. I changed my SS to 1/125 by this time. The smaller dogs generally don't move as fast as the larger ones, so I was able to get away with a bit less speed, still 2.8 and obviously WAY underexposed!...............Alissa

If this was shot at 1600ISO then you won't have any problem. It's just a 30 second fix in photoshop. I'm not seeing any problem noise...for 1600ISO...you should see the noise my S2 gets at 400ISO! :eek:

Hope you don't mind that I ran the image through a quickie photo wash to see how the noise would look.

Tom Nolle

March 6th, 2005, 04:51 AM

Great shots, Alissa. I envy you. I'm still on two lists but my number hasn't come up!

Tom

Sneakyracer

March 6th, 2005, 05:01 AM

Nice shots. :)

Those lighting conditions are terrible. It would be awesome if you could rig some strobes in the place. Put some pocket wizards on them and you have worry free consistent lighting. Your work would be much much easier in regards to maintaining best image quality.

Of course, strobes dont recycle fast enough for a sequence (unless you use them at minimum power in which case youl need to rig up a lot of them).

You can also just light a few of the jumps or obstacles with strobes.

You can adjust the lights for f2.8 and shoot at 1/250, that way the distracting background will still be out of focus and at 1 stop bellow the main subject. The main subject will stand out and be tack sharp. + the strobes will be at close to minimum power and you can get a fast enough recycle for decent sequences.

High ISO!

March 6th, 2005, 07:49 AM

Thanks to EVERYONE, who has given thought and ideas for correcting my indoor shooting situation. The very UNFORTUNATE thing is I really CAN'T use any sort of strobe, floods or lighting, other than what is already there. So I am at a definate disadvantage for getting really great images. In this particular building the lights are all different temps, you can even see it with you eyes! The tire shot was shot under one of the *good* lights. The chute was under one of the dimmer lights.

Later this month, I will try shooting a trial at an indoor soccer arena. Much higher ceilings, so the lighting they offer is even farther away. I think there might be smoe windows near the tops of the walls, but they would only offer limited light at best. Again, no strobes or lights other than what is offered at the location. This particular soccer place is the site of several agility trial throughout the year, even in summer this year! There are at least 4 clubs renting this site for our trials now. I REALLY need to learn to shoot there, if I want to earn a living! :D

Hopefully, my D2x, will help me more than the S2 or D70 did here. Time will tell.....

Alissa
Ron, you did a nice job editing the photos too! Thanks!
Melody, I'm glad you are happier with the in camera sharpening, I have been doing that on all my cameras, so it was something I naturally switched when I was setting the D2x.

ianmcc

March 6th, 2005, 08:23 AM

High ISO!

March 6th, 2005, 08:48 AM

Underexposure looks to be the biggest problem.
I would think creating your own custom white balance in the arena would be one step to getting better exposure. I dont' know the technical side of things, but I think if AutoWB tries too hard, you'll get inaccurate exposures.

Shooting and saving grey card or even better a Macbeth Color checker shot in the area would be helpful in balancing these shots. I used to be really anxious getting shots like this before anything got underway, but keep in mind the lighting doesn't change after an event like this. Much easier to sneak out into the FOP (field of Play) after the event. Old arenas have different aged bulbs in different spots, so getting a shot right where they perform is ideal.

Yep,
Underexposure IS the biggest problem. Yes, I can get properly exposed images IF I am not trying to capture movement. That's not a problem. It's getting the shutter speed up high enough in a dark area to somewhat stop the movement of the dogs, the lens is already wide open (2.8) so I am not getting any DoF. My compromise is underexposure, and fixing it in PS.

I REALLY do need to find my grey card, or get the MacBeth color checker, it's in to get list. :D The D2x does have a place to set unique color adjustments for different situations. I think THIS is what I need to use. I can go to the building from yesterday & the soccer place (neither of them are very far away), during the week or whenever I have time. Then I can play around, with settings, and a card, to get my best exposure & balance using my minimum shutter speed. I REALLY can't go slower than 1/125, and that's pushing it, faster dogs are a minimum of 1/250 and that's not fast enough. Once I have established my white balance for each location, I think I can name them, with words, so I don't need to remember if it was setting #1 or #5 or whatever.

Off to read the manual some more! :D
Alissa