Big problem with sb28 and s2pro

[stedi]

Hi,
I try to explain and i hope someone can help me.
I bought the s2 pro few month ago. I have already the sb28 for my nikon f100, I never had a problem with boths (f100 and sb 28)
Yesterday, for the first time, I try my sb28 with the finepix s2 pro.
But all my test are under-expose.
If I take the picture with 5.6 and 1/60 ... the picture is good. (my flash is TLL or A)
But I want to take a picture of a room and I want 22. And in this case, the picture is dark, black.
My finepix is on mode M or A. But I try all mode and I don't find.
Is that possible to take a picture of a room (in this room there is no so lot of light) with the "opening" 22 and not 5.6?
I hope that someone can help me ...
Thank you very much.
Stéphanie

[Igor]

Hello Stephanie,
Why do you need to stop down the lens to f/22 ? In this case amount of light coming thru' the lens is minimal as you know, no wonder flash can't provide enough lighting. Try at least f/11 or longer exposure like 1/15, 1/20 if possible.

[stedi]

Hello Igor,
I try now :
Finepix : M : f11 - 1/10
Sb28 : A : zoom 35 - f16 -iso 100 (same as my camera)
And on the finepix there is a option +/- and I choose +1.5 .
The picture is a little bit better but still dark :(
Igor thanks for helping me :)

[Steve P]

Yes, as Igor says use a lower f number. I would say 5.6 or there abouts but make sure if you have the Flash in "A" to match the apurature of the S2!

Steve

[stedi]

The problem is that I want to have all clear and if I use 5.6 .. some part of this picture is blur, fuzzy ..not clear everywhere ... I think.

[killians913]

Stephanie,

You are going to have to use a wider angle or faster lens. Your 35mm lens is really more like a 53mm lens due to the 1.5 crop angle when used with the S2 Pro.

Do you have a wider angle and faster lens e.g., 16mm f2.8?

Lockett

[stedi]

In fact, I use the 24-120mm (3.5) and I have just this one :(

[lightwrangler]

You are asking a lot from a little flash. The SB28 set to 5.6 and 200 ISO will illuminate no further than around 20 - 25 feet. On auto, anything that is closer to the camera will cause the flash to cut off before hitting that maximum. This stops the object in the foreground from over exposing. To properly illuminate this room with this flash, you need to get it up high (off camera) or if you have a white ceiling, you can bounce the flash off of that. Bouncing may not work if the room is big, since the flash won't have the output to give you a workable f stop. That is a f stop that will give you sufficient depth of field to keep all of the shot in acceptable focus. You could choose a higher ISO, this will give you a smaller f stop at the cost of noise, but in the end I would suggest looking at an additional flash (slaved) or one with more power like a Metz CT60. In film days, I would suggest multi flashing (one exposure - multiple pops from the same flash) but I haven't really tested that with an S2. The object is to build up the light needed in order to get a smaller f stop. To go from f5.6 to 8, you would flash twice, to go from 5.6 to 11 you would flash 4 times, to go from 5.6 to 16 you would flash 8 times and so on. This means leaving the camera lens open during exposure and controlling the ambient light so that it won't overexpose.

[lightwrangler]

Oh and BTW ...

Use only auto or manual with the S2 and the SB28, TTL will NOT work. This is a known flaw in the system and something that has been widely discussed on this forum.

[stedi]

Thanks a lot ... I'm searching how can i take a picture with several flash ans I try . I let you know. :)

[stedi]

Ok, It's seems good .. I put the picture on my computer to see better.
I still have one question. Why if I use the finepix s2 pro without flash all the picture are under-expose? I have to change +/- on +1,5 and then it's good.

[lightwrangler]

Ok, It's seems good .. I put the picture on my computer to see better.
I still have one question. Why if I use the finepix s2 pro without flash all the picture are under-expose? I have to change +/- on +1,5 and then it's good.

There are a bunch of things that can happen. First of all is metering. Depending on the situation, your metering mode may be wrong. I would suggest testing a reading off of a gray card (18%) in the mid point of your exposure. Take a shot and see if you like it. Also, check your camera against another camera (F100) or a hand held meter to establish if your meter is off or if your method and/or mode of metering is off. Meters can differ and different lenses may also give different readings, but 1.5 stops out is a lot and may mean that your camera is in need of adjustment.

Post a shot or two, so that we can see what you are doing.
Cheers,
Adrian

[killians913]

Stephanie,

I just noticed your earlier post...why are you shooting at ISO100? You should be shooting at a minimum of ISO400. Quite frankly, the S2 does very well at ISOs 800 and 1600. Try the photos again at 24mm at higher ISOs. This will also allow you to stop down the aperture to get the depth of field and focus you want.

Lockett

[stedi]

I took a picture with the mode TLL (1/60 - 5.6) without flash.
I have lot of picture with the levels like the red (that I draw on the picture).

[stedi]

Yes your are right killians. I take the picture with the flash and iso 400. It's expose good. But there is a little bit noice on the things dark. But may be it's works. Thanks

[stedi]

I took an other exemple. And the most of my picture are like this.
(mode TTL, 1/60 - 5.6 without flash)

[fujifilmnut]

Looks like you used matrix metering for the last shot and the bright window light caused the darker image. Try center-weighted metering and lock the exposure on the object you want to correctly expose. Let us see how it works. ;)

[stedi]

I took an other picture with the metering (spot) and it's was the almost the same.
I took this one ... and this one look like of majority photography taking with the finepix s2 pro.
Do you have a solution to propose to me? Because all the photos which I took since the beginning with the
finepix are like that :(

[killians913]

The histogram for this last photo looks fine. I don't understand what your question is. Can you explain further?

Lockett

[stedi]

For me this picture are too dark. Because I took a lot of picture like that and I give a cd at my work. They publish the picture like this and it's was really too dark. I have to work all the picture one by one with photoshop before. Or I can change on my finepix s2 pro the option +/- on +1,5 and it's look better.
If I see on the page 77 ... the book says this histogramme is a picture under-expose.
Do you think really that normal?

[stedi]

And this one? For me it's same a lit a bit dark.
All the time in the histogramme there is nothing on the right.
In fact, sorry for my english but I hope you can understand me :rolleyes:

[killians913]

Stephanie,

What settings do you have for color, tone, and sharpening on your S2? Are you using ORG, ORG, Hard?

Lockett

[stedi]

Ok I try to understand your question and to answer it :)
I push the button FUNC and I see this :
AUTO : WB / ( ) : AF / N / 4256
STD : Coul / STD : Ton / STD : S / SANS : bloc
I think that the same of the manual page 13.

[killians913]

Stephanie,

Change the settings as I suggested above and see if it makes a difference.

Lockett

[stedi]

The difference is not big.
What do you thing?
One is setting STD and one is setting ORG

[stedi]

The first one is setting ORG

[lightwrangler]

To quote Michael Reichman, histograms just are, there is no such thing as a bad one. For greater understanding go to;
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/understanding-histograms.shtml

[stedi]

Thanks ... yesterday i had take a look on this page.
The first histogramme on the top is for me a good one.
But then he shows a histogramme and says "The histogram of the one at the left is bunched up at the dark end (underexposed) and the one on the right is bunched up at the light end (overexposed)."
And at the left ... this one look like mine. (underexposed)

[lightwrangler]

Another thing to consider is that if your images look too dark, you may need to calibrate your monitor rather than adjusting your camera. Also, make a print or two, at home or send it out to a lab. In this way you can see the real life examples of your shots. Unless you only view images on the web or your monitor is precisely calibrated, you are making observations at an intermediary stage in the process.

While I can see that in some of your examples that you may want to increase your exposure somewhat, the histogram you show does accurately describe the scene you have shot. The louvered doors have no really white or bright areas, so your histogram reflects that. The shot of the baby in the bath should be a bit brighter in exposure, maybe that was a flash issue? Remember as i explained earlier, the S2 does not do TTL flash - despite what you may have heard or read, it is not reliable. However you may find that your camera is "off" in the exposure area and that it needs to be adjusted. Once again, if you can, compare it to another camera or to a hand held meter to determine this. Of course if you like the look of your images, there is nothing wrong with leaving your exposure compensation set to +.5 or +1 and doing the same in your flash modes.

I hope that I am making sense to you here, if not let us know where you are, we have members all around the world, maybe someone close to you.

[stedi]

Thanks for your time :)
I have make a print here and at work ... it's dark. It's not my computer.
I have make what you say. I took the picture with the finepix s2 and the same with the same light with my canon powershot.
The dark one is from the finepix.
How can I adjust my camera? I change on ORG ORG and Hard.

[killians913]

I'm not familiar with the Canon powershot, but are you taking the photo in the P mode? Is there a P mode on each camera? Where is your center point focused on for each camera? the chair or the wall behind it?

Is there a setting for metering the light on each camera, i.e., center, average, matrix? Are both cameras identically set?

Lockett

[stedi]

The both are on mode P. The first one was 50 iso and the second one 100 iso. This next picture is 100 iso with the canon.
Focus on the chair like the finepix. And I translate that mettering matrix.
(Mesure matricielle)
And the rest is the same setting.

[lightwrangler]

Stedi, you can't make an adjustment to the metering system if it is not functioning correctly other than compensation. You need to send it in for service. I agree in the samples that you show that the Powershot has a preferable histogram, I don't know why. I have a Canon S500 myself and it takes great pictures up to a certain point. The Canon is mostly automatic and makes all the decisions itself, hitting it right around 90% or the time. However it is a different chip and it is hard to compare the images from it and the Fuji. For instance the Fuji has a much smoother gradation of tone and much less noise at higher ISO settings, due in great part to the fact that it has a much larger chip. The Fuji's resolution and sharpness are superior to the Canon. As far as colour and exposure, I find that the Canon shots are pretty good right out of the camera and so are the Fuji's. But I do have to "process" the Fuji files more. It is after all a pro's camera and the minor fussing I do with a file makes a huge difference.

The fuji histogram you show is a very usable file - a little adjustment of the right slider and you are there. But from what I gather you want to make as few adjustments to you files as possible. If this is the case, I suggest you simplify. Use P mode most of the time, Use ORG, ORG, STD and Matrix metering. Run a test at normal, -.5, -1, +1 and +.5 exposure, view the histograms and use the compensation that looks the best for you. Other than that, have a Fuji repair center look at your camera (and adjust if required) or live with the fact that all images require some kind of "processing". You can make actions in Photoshop that will accomdate most of the common adjustments and you can batch process images in Fuji's Hyper V2 software. This will make it easier to handle multiple files at once.

[stedi]

For answer to your question. I work in Bogotá in Colombia.
And I bought this camera not here but in Belgium.
Because here they have any idea about this camera ... for this people this camera doesn't exist :rofl:
I bought this one in june last year. I took saveral picture the last summer. And all the picture was dark. And then I have not use this camera until now.
To give this camera to fuji ... here it's take a long long long time. Just for a letter, it's take two months. And cost a lot of money.
I prefer find the good exposure with the test +1 +3 +5 and find the best one. Put ORG ORG STD with metering matrix.
Now I learn a lit a bit more ... thanks a lot.

[killians913]

Stephanie,

Due to your location, lightwrangler gave you some good advice. Quite frankly, the amount of post processing you would have to do on the Fuji files is minimal and would be worth your while to do so.

I understand your desire to just shoot, download onto a CD, and deliver, but the "fussing" would greatly enhance the product. As lightwrangler said, the S2 is a professional level camera.

Lockett