WB question with popup flash

[vmic92]

Hi everybody,
When you open the popup flash of the S2, the WB automatically goes to daylight. Well, but I take many pictures inside, where theyre are yet artificial lights and then, the background whitch is out of flash light (too away to recieve the flash light), becomes yellow ! It's logical, but it's not fine ! The picture shows 2 different balances in the same place : correct under the flash light and yellow on the background.
Have anyone a solution ?
- If I put a CTO filter (orange) on my popup flash, the entire image becomes yellow. It's not a good solution.
- Is it possible to set an artificial light WB when the popup flash is open ? How ?

Thanks in advance for any suggestion.

[HulaMike]

The only way I know for jpeg is to shoot a grey card, or use an expodisk grey frame then adjust with the grey picker in CS. You can always shoot raw then select whatever WB you want in your converter of choice.

[vmic92]

Thanks Hula,
But it's not the problem. Perhaps I have given a bad explanation of the situation.
The place is indoor, with artificial lights. With no flash, I set the WB in "artificial light" and all is fine. Well. But if I open the popup flash, then the WB becomes automatically "daylight" and this setting is correct for the part of the picture under the flash light. BUT it is incorrect for the other part : the part far from the photographer which is not under the light of the flash.
Please, take a look at this 2 samples :
Near the photographer, the color under the light of the popup flash is correct, but further afield , everything is yellow because the WB is daylight and the lights are artificials and the flash don't lights until the end of the place. We have here 2 different balance effects in the same picture. How to resolve this problem ?
I have difficulties to explain that in english :-(

[Tom V]

There are two things working against success.

Problem 1) Light sources of different color. The flash is very blue (6000°K or so) and the ambient light is very red (3400° ~ 4000°K).

Somehow, you need to make the illumination from the two sources match. You can use CTO on your flash(es) - which is easy, or CTB on the ambient light sources - which is hard.

(CTO and CTB are the names of filter material available in sheets or rolls. CTO is orangish in color, and drops the color temperture 2600°K. CTB is bluish in color and raises color temp by about 2200°K. CTO and CTB are available full strength, 1/2 strength (ie 1/2 CTO), and so on, for fine tuning color balance.)

Problem 2) When the flash fires, WB settings other than AUTO and CUSTOM are ignored.

My solution: Put CTO on your flash, and set up and use a CUSTOM WB. Only in this way will your light sources have consistent color, and allow you to set a warmer WB.

[HulaMike]

your English is way better than my French.

I really don't know what you can do in this situiation. In fact, I was unaware that the S2 reverted to daylight when using a strobe. If we're lucky, Wayne will chime in here. He'll know how to fix the situation.

I have read on the expodisc site that many wedding shooters set a CWB with flash and the S2 and so I tried it. The few times I've shot my S2 with an older SB-28 in mixed lighting with an ED CWB I didn't get this great a difference in lighting. The TTL sucked but at least the color range looked believable.

.....Wayne?

Edit:

Tom's post below and this post crossed in cyber space it seems. Reading his explanation that the S2 can use a custom white balance explains why I got reasonable results with the expodisk. It averaged the overall light in the room with flash. The operative word here being, "reasonable".

[Tom V]

.... blah blah blah ...

My solution: Put CTO on your flash, and set up and use a CUSTOM WB. ... blah blah blah.....


You many need to use a filter other than CTO in order to match the ambient light. For example, if the ambient light is fluorescent or sodium vapor, you could use a FL and or a combinations of CC and LB filters. Having a Minolta Color Meter makes calculations in complicated lighting far easier than guessing.

Good luck trying to balance non-incandescent lights!

[vmic92]

Thanks Tom,
I know well the CTO, I have some sheets of full CTO. But the great news for me is when you say : "When the flash fires, WB settings other than AUTO and CUSTOM are ignored".
Then, I learn that I can do a custom balance which will work with the popup flash open !
For me, that is THE SOLUTION. I have an expodisc (it is a very good accessory). So, I can do a custom balance under the electric light, I put a CTO on my popup flash, and I shot with my custom WB set. My shots are always under tunksten lights because it is in theaters or in shoting film studios. (That is why I have as much of CTO that I want, he he !)
I was believing that the flashlight was being ignorent all the others WB, except daylight. I was not knowing that AUTO and CUSTOM was working with the flash.
Many thanks. OK, I'll try that moday, I must shot a film shoting !
Thanks to Hula too,

[fujifilmnut]

Vincent,

Mike says Your English is better than his French. Actually your English is better than our English!

[vmic92]

Thanks English,
I transmit your congratulations to my conniving : my dictionnary !
lol

[vmic92]

Here is an exemple of the best solution :
1st step : I set a white balance (custom 1) under the electric light used in the studio.
2nd step : I select custom 1 in the WB setting (of course)
3.. step : I put a CTO filter on the popup flash of the S2.

Here you can see the result on this photography that I have done today with this method.
The part near the photographer is under the light of the flash (with CTO), see the girl on the right of the picture ; the scenery and the walls,further, are not under the light of the flash but under the lights of the film.
And BOTH HAVE THE SAME BALANCE COLOR !
Yheee !

[HulaMike]

Just curious. Did you try the expodisc with flash as a test? How was that result?

[vmic92]

Hello Hula,
Yes, I use an expodisc to do the custom WB.
No, I don't use the flash to do this custom WB with expodisc.
Please, take a look at the picture . What is this ? It is a studio for film shooting (35mm film camera, cinema, kino, movie... I don't know which is the good word !)
All the lamps are at 3600°K. So I put the expodisc on the lens, I active the custom 1 WB set on the S2, I turn the lens to a lamp witch have no filter And I set the balance like that, turned to a lamp, but with no flash.
When I put a CTO filter on my flash, I know that this CTO filter change the 5600°K of the flash in a 3600°K light. So, I obtain the same light color with the kino lamps in the studio and with the flash : both at 3600°K. So, I can use the flash quietly !
Is it understanding ?
But I've not tested to use the flash to do a WB setting. When I turn my lens to a lamp, the light of this lamp is so powerful, that the flash will have any effect !